How about those who prefer leaders keep their hands off the kids?

[an_old_DC]

1 hour ago, Col. Flagg said:

 

The real losers in this will be the girls. Why? Because the whole program for girls is being thrown together by a group of know-nothings. If units are "separate but equal" (meaning: boys in one troop, girls in another) you will need to replicate the entire boy-led, patrol method troop structure TWICE. That means TWICE the leaders or TWICE the work for the same leaders. Either way you have a big problem. Most current leaders are well beyond being tapped out and over-extended. I will be most of us here wear or wore about 5-10 different hats, be they at the unit, district or council level. I'd wager my 2018 pay checks that less than 5% will sign up for that extra, girls-only work. That means you have FIND and TRAIN a whole bunch of new leaders to run those all-girl units. If you've ever tried to recruit Cub or Boy Scout adult leaders you know exactly how hard that will be.

 

...and as soon as they have trouble recruiting leaders, it becomes a Commissioner problem because somebody is going to have to visit the unit on a "Parents Night" and facilitate a "somebody has got to help out here, folks," conversation. And then constantly monitor them to ensure they really are delivering the Program and not cutting corners.

[Col. Flagg]

5 minutes ago, an_old_DC said:

...and as soon as they have trouble recruiting leaders, it becomes a Commissioner problem because somebody is going to have to visit the unit on a "Parents Night" and facilitate a "somebody has got to help out here, folks," conversation. And then constantly monitor them to ensure they really are delivering the Program and not cutting corners.

No offense, but I have not seen a commissioner in 12 years. Looking at our district website we have 36 troops in our district and only 2 DCs. A larger number of packs and only 4 DCs for them. I know for a fact 2 of those 6 people are nearly immobile. The other four are so involved with their troops that they wouldn't have time to visit 5 units a year.

If BSA is betting on DCs to pick up the slack they may want to count how many belly buttons they have in those roles who can actually do the job. I'll wager most districts have paper DCs only, if any. I know mine is like that, as are the surrounding districts.

[numbersnerd]

1 minute ago, Col. Flagg said:

No offense, but I have not seen a commissioner in 12 years. Looking at our district website we have 36 troops in our district and only 2 DCs. A larger number of packs and only 4 DCs for them. I know for a fact 2 of those 6 people are nearly immobile. The other four are so involved with their troops that they wouldn't have time to visit 5 units a year.

If BSA is betting on DCs to pick up the slack they may want to count how many belly buttons they have in those roles who can actually do the job. I'll wager most districts have paper DCs only, if any. I know mine is like that, as are the surrounding districts.

It will be interesting to see if the already thin commissioner corps downsizes once girls are in. How many DC's don't subscribe to the new policy and will decline the honor? How many adults that agree with it will have the time to devote to being a DC if they're trying to build a girl unit?

[an_old_DC]

16 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

No offense, but I have not seen a commissioner in 12 years. Looking at our district website we have 36 troops in our district and only 2 DCs. A larger number of packs and only 4 DCs for them. I know for a fact 2 of those 6 people are nearly immobile. The other four are so involved with their troops that they wouldn't have time to visit 5 units a year.

If BSA is betting on DCs to pick up the slack they may want to count how many belly buttons they have in those roles who can actually do the job. I'll wager most districts have paper DCs only, if any. I know mine is like that, as are the surrounding districts.

None taken, Col. Unfortunately, that is often the case. I don't have a large staff of Unit Commissioners, and even then, a few do the real lion's share of work.

I don't believe National will bet on commissioners of any kind helping--it'll be up to unit leaders.

[an_old_DC]

17 minutes ago, numbersnerd said:

It will be interesting to see if the already thin commissioner corps downsizes once girls are in. How many DC's don't subscribe to the new policy and will decline the honor? How many adults that agree with it will have the time to devote to being a DC if they're trying to build a girl unit?

Sorry, I couldn't figure out how to reply to two posts in one post of my own.

Nobody has outright admitted it yet, but I have a hunch my already thin corps will get a lot smaller sometime next spring. I cant say the decision to allow girls to participate is popular among my staff, and National's sneakiness about how the decision was reached is even more unpopular (among my team).

[Col. Flagg]

 

8 minutes ago, an_old_DC said:

Sorry, I couldn't figure out how to reply to two posts in one post of my own.

Yeah new interface had me thrown too. I think it works when you click the + sign for each post you want to quote. In the lower right a "multi quote" box pops up (at least for me) and then you click that.

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by Col. Flagg
Smaller graphic

[an_old_DC]

3 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

Yeah new interface had me thrown too. I think it works when you click the + sign for each post you want to quote. In the lower right a "multi quote" box pops up (at least for me) and then you click that.

OK, thanks...and I guess the little "trophy" emoticon means "thanks". I guess

[NJCubScouter]

11 minutes ago, an_old_DC said:

Sorry, I couldn't figure out how to reply to two posts in one post of my own.

Below each post is a "plus" sign, just to the left of the word "Quote."  The plus sign is multi-quote, which does what you were trying to do.  In the old software it said the word "Multiquote," I don't know why they decided to replace it with a symbol, but anyway...

Added:  Oh, someone already answered... never mind...

Edited December 12, 2017 by NJCubScouter

[Col. Flagg]

2 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Below each post is a "plus" sign, just to the left of the word "Quote."  The plus sign is multi-quote, which does what you were trying to do.  In the old software it said the word "Multiquote," I don't know why they decided to replace it with a symbol, but anyway...

Added:  Oh, someone already answered... never mind...

Yeah, He Who Must Not Be Named.  You can speak my name, I don't bite....hard. (Sorry Austin Powers).

Edited December 12, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[NJCubScouter]

11 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

Yeah, He Who Must Not Be Named.  You can speak my name, I don't bite....hard. (Sorry Austin Powers).

Nothing personal, I just scrolled by quickly and didn't notice who wrote it. 

[perdidochas]

2 hours ago, Tampa Turtle said:

I am REALLY outraged that while adding girls to my Troop will be an increase of genders by 100%, the 2018-2019 contract for ASM's only has a 50% pay bump.

Only a 50% pay bump?  I'd been getting a 100% pay bump every year (and a 200% bump at my 5th anniversary).  

[Eagle94-A1]

Regarding troops and going coed. I've been told by Scouters that it will happen in my district, heck my troop is the first one to tell me this, because of the lack of resources and manpower to have two separate units.

When I brought it up to my Council Key three at the town hall meeting, they ignored it , and everyone else in the room agreed it will happen.

Even the CSE in his 20 questions video indirectly states it will happen.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Eagle94-A1

[MattR]

2 hours ago, Col. Flagg said:

 

Yeah new interface had me thrown too. I think it works when you click the + sign for each post you want to quote. In the lower right a "multi quote" box pops up (at least for me) and then you click that.

 

@He-who-must-not-be-named, I noticed you can also just click on more than one quote and it will add them to the end of your reply window. Like so...

2 hours ago, Col. Flagg said:

Yeah, He Who Must Not Be Named.  You can speak my name, I don't bite....hard. (Sorry Austin Powers).

 

[an_old_DC]

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Regarding troops and going coed. I've been told by Scouters that it will happen in my district, heck my troop is the first one to tell me this, because of the lack of resources and manpower to have two separate units.

When I brought it up to my Council Key three at the town hall meeting, they ignored it , and everyone else in the room agreed it will happen.

Even the CSE in his 20 questions video indirectly states it will happen.

Same experience here. I have heard volunteers say this, and if brought up among Council Professionals, they change the topic.

[WisconsinMomma]

16 hours ago, Col. Flagg said:

The real losers in this will be the girls. Why? Because the whole program for girls is being thrown together by a group of know-nothings. If units are "separate but equal" (meaning: boys in one troop, girls in another) you will need to replicate the entire boy-led, patrol method troop structure TWICE. That means TWICE the leaders or TWICE the work for the same leaders. Either way you have a big problem. Most current leaders are well beyond being tapped out and over-extended. I will be most of us here wear or wore about 5-10 different hats, be they at the unit, district or council level. I'd wager my 2018 pay checks that less than 5% will sign up for that extra, girls-only work. That means you have FIND and TRAIN a whole bunch of new leaders to run those all-girl units. If you've ever tried to recruit Cub or Boy Scout adult leaders you know exactly how hard that will be.

I think the exacerbation you hear is from the collective (and considerable) experience in this forum knowing that BSA usually missed the mark BIG TIME when major change is involved. We are gearing up for that giant dung ball that will start rolling down hill in 2018...knowing it will land on our door step.

OK, Stosh says the boys will lose, Flagg says the girls will lose, we'll have to see what actually happens.

Yes, there will need to be more leaders.  That means welcoming to the new people who show up to help out.   

If patrols are youth run, if I understand Stosh correctly, the adults aren't all that important!     The BSA has a wealth of training materials and there's always Youtube for learning to do lashings and practically any other Scout skill. 

We'll have to see how it goes.