Messed Up Patrol Method

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, David CO said:

Got it. You want to convince the other adults to come over to your point of view. 

If they are coming in to the meeting with the same goal, to convince you to come over to their point of view, then you are both out of luck. 

 

rue.  I know I'm not going to get 100% of what I want for the troop, the Scouts left alone and in charge with real responsibilities and obligations and the adults sitting around drinking coffee and not doing a thing.

One thing tI think I have over them is expereince.  I've been dealing with Boy Scouts as a member, Scouter, and professional for 32 years now. I've been in 5 different council and involved with 5 different troops, six if you include one that I worked with indirectly as mentoring their SM. Plus I've had the opportunity to work with foreign Scouts, and see some differnt things from overseas that are good ideas. I not only have been to training, I've taught it. And just SM Specific and ITOLS, but also BA 22, JLTC and Retaining Older Scouts.. Most of these folks have no Boy Scout experience, and little to no Boy Scouter training. I am not asking that they automatically let me iresponsible for their kids. I know they need to develop trust. But I do wish they would listen to those of us with experience when they are causing problems. I am not the only one who has had these issues.

While it may be important to them, it hasn't been shown except to interfere. While Webelos, they never camped with the troop despite at least 10 invitations over a 21 month period. The one time they did show up at a camp out, they ignored the directions they were give prior to the camp, ignored Scout in charge of working with them, didn't let the Scout do the work, and left that afternoon instead of camping.  Only Webelos camping came from another pack, or from another den in their pack. And the one from another den was friends with one from another pack. His den was not interested at all in camping with the troop. Additionally some of the parents causing issues never attended either of the 2 meeting we had for them.

 

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

Good point with scouts in the middle. Maybe these arguments should come from some well-spoken scouts?

My $0.02

Agree the Scouts are the ones who are in the middle and are being hurt as a result. Two issues with them coming to the meeting.

First and foremost is that the SM scheduled this meeting when the Scouts are doing a tournament. Closest to a Scout I can get to attend is the 18 year old ASM. And I know his thoughts because I talked to him: "It's starting to seem like Cub Scouts."

Second issue, and IMHO the more important one, is that there is a lack of trust and respect between some of the adults and the Scouts. I've talked to the Scouts about a lot of things over the years. They have had issues with all of the adults, myself included, with not allowing them to take charge. At least they know I listen to them, take them seriously, and advocate for them to the other adults.  But it should be the SM defending them and advocating for them, and not an ASM. And adults keep haring on that the Scouts are not ready for the responsibility. My question is how can they ever be ready if they are never given the opportunity to take responsibility?

28 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Since this fall, our PLC has had a15-20 minute huddle after every meeting, either the SM or I drop in to field any questions (which are getting fewer, but tougher to answer). The committee is backing off as the boys are stepping up. It's still tough for some of them to see the organized chaos and keep a tight lip. But I am hearing things like "I never thought it could work like this."

Regarding some of those tough-to-answer questions, if I have a moment a start a topic for each one.

Regarding PLC huddles, That is something I wish we were doing.

As for the "Never thought it would work"comment, I heard that  with this Troop after we initiated changes last year. Long story short, one Scouter very opposed to Scout-led told me "I hope they fail" so that the adults could take over again. Until this last batch of New Scouts and their parents showed up, he was amazed at how well things were going when we gave the Scouts responsibility. Sadly that advocate recently moved.

[Sentinel947]

3 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

How to convince adults to stick with the Patrol Method.  Specifically

What are your arguments for patrol method?

How would you go about convincing adults to let Scouts sign off on advancement?

How would you go about convincing adults le tthe Scouts make their own decisions, and suffer the consequences?

How do you convince adults that the Scouts really know who the best leaders are?

How would you convince adults that having families camp with the troop is a bad idea?

Anything else i'm missing.

I've found success in this area in the past by taking problems the unit was having and pitching why the Patrol method is the solution to those problems. Framed in that light, you may face less resistance. 3 years later, the adult in my troop that was most hesitant about the patrol method is helping the older boys launch an older Scout program that goes beyond the High Adventure bases.  

[RememberSchiff]

All sides, less bickering please. Thank you.

Edited December 7, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[David CO]

3 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

One thing I think I have over them is experience.  

Yes, but even a 21 year old, newly appointeded scoutmaster outranks the most experienced ASM in the unit. 

[Stosh]

As far as convincing the adults about the patrol method is concerned, I often find it more difficult to convince the boys.  Without them backing the patrol method, one is dead in the water.  However, if allied with the program, the scouts often hold sway over the adults/parents.  Once the parents see the benefits allowed by the program leaders, the parents will come around.  More than once, I have had parents tell me how great their kid turned out if given the chance to mature naturally in the patrol setting.  The major problem with adults is not allowing the boys to function properly in the patrol setting and then wag their finger in justification saying, it doesn't work.  Of course it doesn't work, the boys never had a chance from the get-go.

[Eagle94-A1]

3 hours ago, David CO said:

Yes, but even a 21 year old, newly appointeded scoutmaster outranks the most experienced ASM in the unit. 

True. And a good SM will listen to his Scouts. And as a former 21 year old OA Advisor, I can tell you the closer to the Scouts age, the more likely they will listen to the Scouts, and have a better idea of what the Scouts want than us old fogeys.

3 hours ago, Stosh said:

   Once the parents see the benefits allowed by the program leaders, the parents will come around.  More than once, I have had parents tell me how great their kid turned out if given the chance to mature naturally in the patrol setting.  The major problem with adults is not allowing the boys to function properly in the patrol setting and then wag their finger in justification saying, it doesn't work.  Of course it doesn't work, the boys never had a chance from the get-go.

Yes that is the problem here. 

Crazy thing is I had a conversation with one of the incoming parents. Like me he came from a "Hiking and Camping" Scout-led troop. He knew one of the original batch of challenging adults, the one who wished the Scouts would fail. Incoming parent noted the change in that Scouter regarding Patrol Method when he saw it working.