Parent Issue - Cub Scouts

[Millie]

32 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

IMO, Council may advise but it the Character Organization's decision.

Yes, it is the CO's decision from all that I've read and heard.  However, as a courtesy, I made them (Council) aware of the situation and sought their advise to ensure that our Pack stays within guidelines and policies of BSA.  Without a doubt, if it comes down to removing/banning her, her drama will substantially increase.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Millie

[NJCubScouter]

17 minutes ago, Millie said:

...by her own admission, she could not pass a background check and will not register.

 

Um.  Do you have any idea why that is?  Not that it is necessarily any of your business, but since she actually told you that part of it, maybe she provided some details.  And, just because I am curious, does she just mean that a check of her references would probably reveal negative information, or that she would actually fail the CRIMINAL background check? 

Edited December 4, 2017 by NJCubScouter

[Millie]

19 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Um.  Do you have any idea why that is?  Not that it is necessarily any of your business, but since she actually told you that part of it, maybe she provided some details.  And, just because I am curious, does she just mean that a check of her references would probably reveal negative information, or that she would actually fail the CRIMINAL background check? 

She did not provide details but alluded to something "law related" in her background.  I

[David CO]

Gee whiz. NJCubScouter has something "law related" in his background, but that has never caused us to exclude him.

[Millie]

Just now, David CO said:

Gee whiz. NJCubScouter has something "law related" in his background, but that has never caused us to exclude him.

Ha!    Well, we did not exclude her from registering as a leader.  She declined to do so because she stated that she would not pass a background check due to a "law related" issue.  

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

27 minutes ago, David CO said:

Gee whiz. NJCubScouter has something "law related" in his background, but that has never caused us to exclude him.

For Millie's benefit, the law-related something in my background is that I am a lawyer, but I suspect that is not the kind of law-related something in Problem Mom's background.

[Stosh]

Over the years I have been involved in a lot of "political" hassles in many different organizations and the dynamics are always the same.  The simple explanation for this situation is: this parent enjoys the conflict and the perpetuation of it.  It's a game to her.  She doesn't really want the game to end because then all the fun will go away.  So, the rest of the group has to decide to take it to the next level of conflict which is labeled "Divorce" and remove this woman and the game will go away, or take the conflict down to level of basic problem identification and solving.  At this level where the woman is at is never going to agree to that because that would mean the game would be over.  Well it's going to be over one way or another.  The odds of it being resolved gracefully just isn't in the cards.  The only solution would be to have her not be part of the processes of the unit.  You will probably lose a good scout in the process, make sure he knows that none of this is his fault and encourage him to stay in scouting wherever he moves on to.

Just keep it in mind that with this game that is going on, nothing in the rules points to "for the boys".  And yet, in the interest of the boys, the game has got to change, one way or the other.

[Millie]

11 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

For Millie's benefit, the law-related something in my background is that I am a lawyer, but I suspect that is not the kind of law-related something in Problem Mom's background.

I suspected something like that. 

[Col. Flagg]

Kick her out...keep her son. He sounds like a good kid despite his DNA.

I cannot say I have ever had a parent attempt to get pack meeting dates, times or locations moved at the Cub level. Den meetings? Sure. But then we usually invited the griping parent to "host" them...that usually shuts them up pretty fast.

If she cannot pass a background check that's a MAJOR red flag. I would not let her alone with any adult or child. Never.

[Millie]

3 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Over the years I have been involved in a lot of "political" hassles in many different organizations and the dynamics are always the same.  The simple explanation for this situation is: this parent enjoys the conflict and the perpetuation of it.  It's a game to her.  She doesn't really want the game to end because then all the fun will go away.  So, the rest of the group has to decide to take it to the next level of conflict which is labeled "Divorce" and remove this woman and the game will go away, or take the conflict down to level of basic problem identification and solving.  At this level where the woman is at is never going to agree to that because that would mean the game would be over.  Well it's going to be over one way or another.  The odds of it being resolved gracefully just isn't in the cards.  The only solution would be to have her not be part of the processes of the unit.  You will probably lose a good scout in the process, make sure he knows that none of this is his fault and encourage him to stay in scouting wherever he moves on to.

Just keep it in mind that with this game that is going on, nothing in the rules points to "for the boys".  And yet, in the interest of the boys, the game has got to change, one way or the other.

Spot on Stosh!  I feel badly for her son, but as you said, in the interest of the boys, the game has got to change.

[Col. Flagg]

8 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Over the years I have been involved in a lot of "political" hassles in many different organizations and the dynamics are always the same.  The simple explanation for this situation is: this parent enjoys the conflict and the perpetuation of it.  It's a game to her.  She doesn't really want the game to end because then all the fun will go away.  So, the rest of the group has to decide to take it to the next level of conflict which is labeled "Divorce" and remove this woman and the game will go away, or take the conflict down to level of basic problem identification and solving.  At this level where the woman is at is never going to agree to that because that would mean the game would be over.  Well it's going to be over one way or another.  The odds of it being resolved gracefully just isn't in the cards.  The only solution would be to have her not be part of the processes of the unit.  You will probably lose a good scout in the process, make sure he knows that none of this is his fault and encourage him to stay in scouting wherever he moves on to.

Just keep it in mind that with this game that is going on, nothing in the rules points to "for the boys".  And yet, in the interest of the boys, the game has got to change, one way or the other.

I wish I could rep this 1000 times!

That's EXACTLY it, @Stosh (see, still works ). It is a game. She doesn't care about the outcome, only the process of throwing stones at ANYTHING and seeing the reaction. 

[Millie]

1 minute ago, Col. Flagg said:

Kick her out...keep her son. He sounds like a good kid despite his DNA.

I cannot say I have ever had a parent attempt to get pack meeting dates, times or locations moved at the Cub level. Den meetings? Sure. But then we usually invited the griping parent to "host" them...that usually shuts them up pretty fast.

If she cannot pass a background check that's a MAJOR red flag. I would not let her alone with any adult or child. Never.

I wish there were a way to keep her son, we've pondered this, but I don't see it being a possibility.  She rarely lets him very far out of her sight.  In addition to her other endearing personality traits, she is also a helicopter parent.  

All of our Dens meet on the same night/time due to the fact that we have so many families with multiple scouts in our unit.  So, it just works best for us that way.  To change her Den, she'd have to change the entire Pack meeting date/time/location.  Not likely to happen.

That major red flag has been up for the better part of two years since her disclosure.  She's never alone with any other member (youth or adult).   

Just now, Col. Flagg said:

I wish I could rep this 1000 times!

That's EXACTLY it, @Stosh (see, still works ). It is a game. She doesn't care about the outcome, only the process of throwing stones at ANYTHING and seeing the reaction. 

Exactly!

[Col. Flagg]

3 minutes ago, Millie said:

I wish there were a way to keep her son, we've pondered this, but I don't see it being a possibility.  She rarely lets him very far out of her sight.  In addition to her other endearing personality traits, she is also a helicopter parent.  ne with any other member (youth or adult).   

I feel for the Boy Scout troop that takes her son if she is still like this then. Hopefully she will change. Experience says she won't. She's bitter about something and everyone around her is suffering.

What bothers me the most if the impact on the young man. Her son is going to miss out on sooooo much because no one is going to want to deal with his mom. THAT is the travesty in all of this.

Best of luck getting the result you need. Stay strong! 

Edited December 4, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[Millie]

1 minute ago, Col. Flagg said:

I feel for the Boy Scout troop that takes her son if she is still like this then. Hopefully she will change. Experience says she won't. She's bitter about something and everyone around her is suffering.

What bothers me the most if the impact on the young man. Her son is going to miss out on sooooo much because no one is going to want to deal with his mom. THAT is the travesty in all of this.

Best of luck getting the result you need. Stay strong! 

It is sad for this young man, but we have all just reached the end of our patience in dealing with her drama.

Thank you Colonel! 

[NJCubScouter]

33 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

If she cannot pass a background check that's a MAJOR red flag. I would not let her alone with any adult or child. Never.

Yes, that was kind of the show-stopper for me too.  I think that Millie inadvertently did what journalists call "burying the lede."  (And yes, that is how lede is spelled; I may be a lawyer now, but this is not my first career.) 

Of course, Problem Mom's sordid personal past could range anywhere from something like shoplifting or passing bad checks (in which case the fact that she falsely tells people she is pack TREASURER raises a whole fleet of red flags) on up to something violent.  We just don't know.

Edited December 4, 2017 by NJCubScouter