Not sure what to do!

[packsabrunch]

Within the last two months I enrolled my kids in Cub Scouts and found the Pack in our area very disorganized, lack of communication for events, and in general there seemed to be no real plan or program being followed. After attending a committee meeting I saw that there was a dire need for - at the least - proper documentation of committee meeting minutes. Well, my volunteering to do this turned into me becoming the pack secretary. A month later I have been doing the secretary role and then some, just trying to help with events and communicating out to the pack so everyone is in the loop, and I find myself in a very tough position:

The Cubmaster and Committee Chair in this pack DO NOT get along. They do not like each other, and often times refuse to communicate with each other and talk negatively about each other. This is frustrating and stressful at face value, but each aforementioned party also looks to me and asks me for help - what they are actually doing is putting me between them instead of working together to plan pack meetings and other events.

Both my kids like Scouts so I am trying to stick this out, but the conflicting leadership and their approach is really, really ruining the experience - for myself and for other parents and leaders as well.

I'm so new to Scouts and took the committee training but feel I must have missed the part where they go over what to do in this scenario.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Does anyone have any advice? I appreciate any insight on how to navigate this scenario - this isn't like a normal job where you have management and HR. I just don't know what to do with these personalities that refuse to work well with each other and create frustration and confusion for myself and others in this pack!

Edited December 1, 2017 by packsabrunch

[RememberSchiff]

Welcome to scouter.com @packsabrunch

Are there other Cub Scout packs nearby?

[packsabrunch]

1 minute ago, RememberSchiff said:

Welcome to scouter.com @packsabrunch

Are there other Cub Scout packs nearby?

Maybe....I hadn't thought about looking at that before, looking at it now it looks like there might be.

Is that an option for me, to switch Cub Scout packs? 

[Col. Flagg]

13 minutes ago, packsabrunch said:

Maybe....I hadn't thought about looking at that before, looking at it now it looks like there might be.

Is that an option for me, to switch Cub Scout packs? 

Always. You can move whenever you like. Just make sure you take copies of any advancement work the boys have done with you. Also, the new Pack should NOT charge you for dues since you have already paid in your other pack. Transfers are usually $1 and done at the council office. Some packs may have "join fees" but those are usually few and far between.

Cleaning up a messy pack is a hard enough job for someone who has a Scouting background and knows how a pack should run. Doing as a newbie is effort best spent elsewhere.

Lastly, your district executive could intervene and address the issues with the pack leadership. However, if you do that someone will get their nose out of joint that you tattled. IMHO it is not worth the pain.

[RememberSchiff]

19 minutes ago, packsabrunch said:

Maybe....I hadn't thought about looking at that before, looking at it now it looks like there might be.

Is that an option for me, to switch Cub Scout packs? 

Yes. I did with my son.

[judybsa]

In the scouting world, there is a group of experienced volunteer scouters that specialize in helping cub scout packs.  They are called commissioners.  The District Commissioner is responsible for managing this team.  Usually each pack is assigned one of these commissioners.  If you don't know who your unit commissioner is, I would contact the council office and ask to speak with the district executive.  He/she can let you know who is the unit commissioner assigned to your cub scout pack or give you the contact information for the district commissioner.  These scouters are an awesome resource for dealing with these "sticky" issues and it is possible that they are already working behind the scenes on the very problem that you have noticed and would appreciate hearing your observations from the inside.

 

Judy

[NJCubScouter]

I think that how you deal with this depends on what type of personality you are.  If I were you, what I would do (or at least consider doing) is to tell the CM and CC that you need to sit down with both of them, just the three of you, and if and when this meeting takes place, tell them basically what you just told us.  I am happy to help the pack by being pack secretary, and I like working with the two of you individually, but you are putting me in the middle of what is obviously a difficult relationship.  I cannot function like this.  It is not what I signed up for.  Either the two of you improve your working relationship or I cannot continue in this position and I will go back to being just a parent.  (More aggressive alternative:  Either the two of you improve your working relationship, or one of the three of us needs to be replaced.  But beware that one of the possible outcomes of that approach is that when the conversation ends, YOU could be the new pack committee chair.)

Or something like that.

But of course, I am not you.  My profession (litigation attorney) means that I basically do confrontation and conflict (and peacemaking, otherwise known as settling a case) for a living.  My approach is definitely not for everyone, and getting out of Dodge (with your sons) is a perfectly honorable alternative if you feel that you have done all that you (not me) reasonably can to improve the current situation.

Edited December 1, 2017 by NJCubScouter

[qwazse]

There's nothing in the manual for when adults behave like children.

It's great that you are your pack's secretary, but you are right that that's not the same as being two leader's intermediary.

There are three viable scenarios:

1. These two straighten up
2. They move out
3. You move on

The one other person who should be in this equation is the Charter Organization Representative (COR). That person signs off on every leader in the unit. So, his/her opinion on the situation would matter a lot.

[packsabrunch]

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

There's nothing in the manual for when adults behave like children.

It's great that you are your pack's secretary, but you are right that that's not the same as being two leader's intermediary.

There are three viable scenarios:

1. These two straighten up
2. They move out
3. You move on

The one other person who should be in this equation is the Charter Organization Representative (COR). That person signs off on every leader in the unit. So, his/her opinion on the situation would matter a lot.

Catching back up on this thread - thanks for the good advice and the insight!! I think I am going to start with the suggestion of addressing it with these two directly; if I were causing an issue I would hope folks would do the same for me, and at the end of the day you all are right: I can always go back to just being a scout parent and switch packs if the issues start affecting my kids.

[SSScout]

Packabrunch:   Again, welcome to the virtual crackerbarrel (campfires melt electronics).

All good suggestions.  Metaphorically grabbing these two "kids" by the nape of the neck and telling them like it is will no doubt have repercussions, hopefully good for the Cubs. And THAT is what these two need to be reminded. They signed on , NOT to show up the other, or be mad or resentful or try to prove something, but to BE there for the CUBS. 

Ego trips, personal vendettas (any unresolved dynamics between these two?),  perceived character flaws, whatever.  They need to remember the GOAL is the Cubs program.  Period. 

Pass the pie, please.....

[packsabrunch]

9 minutes ago, SSScout said:

Packabrunch:   Again, welcome to the virtual crackerbarrel (campfires melt electronics).

All good suggestions.  Metaphorically grabbing these two "kids" by the nape of the neck and telling them like it is will no doubt have repercussions, hopefully good for the Cubs. And THAT is what these two need to be reminded. They signed on , NOT to show up the other, or be mad or resentful or try to prove something, but to BE there for the CUBS. 

Ego trips, personal vendettas (any unresolved dynamics between these two?),  perceived character flaws, whatever.  They need to remember the GOAL is the Cubs program.  Period. 

Pass the pie, please.....

I appreciate  your response to my thread.

 

Update for the interested: I took the approach of bringing the issue up with these persons directly. While the Committee Chair was receptive to the feedback, the Cubmaster has reacted so dismissively and aggressively that there has now been several communications where blatant disrespect has occurred, both in person and through text/email communication. In this evening's committee meeting the topic of respect came up and I vocalized how I felt disrespected, unappreciated, and unwelcome. The response was an eye roll and combativeness - the Cubmaster is not from the US and stated that in his country his behavior would not be considered disrespectful.

I'm entirely floored. Both at this behavior and at the Committee for allowing this treatment towards me as both a volunteer and a parent. I've decided I should simply go back to being a pack parent - this is too stressful and the behavior so unacceptable that I cannot allow myself to continue. If this were a job, I would seek another job immediately. 

If this is Cub Scouts, I want no part of it.

Edited December 8, 2017 by packsabrunch

[SSScout]

Sorry to hear that.  Time to fall back on the organizational chart.  The Committee supports the program.  The Cubmaster applies the program.   If the Committee is happy with the program as led by the Cubmaster, no problem.  If the Committee (not just the CChair) is not happy with the way the Cubmaster applies the program, hey, the IH and COR need to be brought into the conversation.

In my book, here in this country, respect for the rest of the organization is important.  If someone, ANYONE , complains about the way they are being treated, that needs to be addressed. 

And then, Brunch,  you are a volunteer.  And , remember, "the work is done by whoever shows up".  And the way the work is done is therefore determined by "whoever" shows up.  The IH, the COR, the Committee all need to decide if they want the present Cubmaster to continue "showing up".

See you on the trail.

[WisconsinMomma]

Focus on your den.  I hope you have a good den leader.  Enjoy that group and just leave the Pack alone.  

[packsabrunch]

53 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

Focus on your den.  I hope you have a good den leader.  Enjoy that group and just leave the Pack alone.  

That's the plan!! I have two boys in the pack and I really like both my boy's den leaders. I'll be much happier as a pack parent, life is too short and as much as I was looking to help, there's always the prospect of helping more in the future or moving on to another pack if the issues start affecting my kids.

Edited December 8, 2017 by packsabrunch

[SSScout]

Like Bob the Tomato said,  "It's for the kids".