TampaTurtle: Unneeded parents on hikes

[Eagledad]

1 hour ago, Stosh said:

When I was 18 I had already moved out of the house and was living on my own.  All of us kids in the family did the same thing.  We actually looked forward to being on our own.

I agree. Most parents in those days “expected” their kids to move on after age 18 or high school graduation, whatever came first. When a whole community has the same expectation, reluctant parents are forced to go with the flow. When Congress forced healthcare providers to keep children on their parents healthcare policy until age 27, I knew that agenda was either following a cultural trend, or driving one. 

Barry

[Stosh]

We are in a society where parenthood is becoming obsolete.  We are replacing parents with nannies, biological in most instances.  When our children were no longer expected to actually grow up, parents were "required" to take care of them into the extended years.  When the families began to deteriorate the collateral damage of divorce (40-50% of all US marriages, higher for re-marriages), the government had to step in and began to parent the children.  Any program that promoted the growth, maturity development and independence of young adults became offensive to this process.  Thus the suspicion of such groups grew and were challenged at every turn.

What chance do children have when those who are supposed to rear them are from two different households?

So in steps BSA with it's "family" program.  So, define family.  with less than 10% of our nation's youth living in a household of natural mom and dad, that is a daunting challenge.  Is the adult who shows up with Little Johnny really his parent or legal guardian?  If custodial Mom can't make it to an activity and step-dad (with no legal standing with the boy) shows up, is Johnny allowed on the activity?  How does that jeopardize the legal standing of the Scouters?  This is but the tip of the iceberg of potential litigation that BSA is totally ignoring with it's all-inclusiveness policies.  I learned a long time ago that those little "permission slips" that "parents" sign have absolutely no standing in a court of law.  

We are all now in a Brave New World of some pretty thin ice.   Skate carefully, My Friend.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Stosh

[Jameson76]

On 12/9/2017 at 11:30 AM, Stosh said:

So in steps BSA with it's "family" program.  So, define family.  with less than 10% of our nation's youth living in a household of natural mom and dad, that is a daunting challenge.  Is the adult who shows up with Little Johnny really his parent or legal guardian?  If custodial Mom can't make it to an activity and step-dad (with no legal standing with the boy) shows up, is Johnny allowed on the activity?  How does that jeopardize the legal standing of the Scouters?  This is but the tip of the iceberg of potential litigation that BSA is totally ignoring with it's all-inclusiveness policies.  I learned a long time ago that those little "permission slips" that "parents" sign have absolutely no standing in a court of law.  

We are all now in a Brave New World of some pretty thin ice.   Skate carefully, My Friend.

Just a quick fact check - actually it's about 58%

Each year the Census Bureau captures a snapshot of the living arrangements of U.S. children through its Current Population Survey. The 2014 results were released by the Bureau last week, and the portrait they present of the family lives of 73.7 million American kids is certainly a variegated one.

Yet despite all the talk about the growing irrelevance of marriage, 43 million children, a 58-percent majority, were living with both their birth mother and biological father in a traditional married-couple family

 

[WisconsinMomma]

One thing I am seeing in Scouts and hockey is the involvement of grandparents with kids who have divorced moms and dads.  This seems to be wonderful for the kid to have an extra adult or two who can help take them to activities and serve as role models.  Grandparents are great.

[David CO]

On 12/9/2017 at 9:41 AM, Eagledad said:

I agree. Most parents in those days “expected” their kids to move on after age 18 or high school graduation, whatever came first. 

I grew up in an extended family with 4 generations living under the same roof. It wasn't quite like The Waltons, though. We had much better insulation (soundproofing) in the walls. Good night, John-boy!

I always considered the extended family living arrangement to be very traditional, perhaps even quaint. I never thought of it as a modern lifestyle.

Edited December 10, 2017 by David CO

[Stosh]

1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

Just a quick fact check - actually it's about 58%

Each year the Census Bureau captures a snapshot of the living arrangements of U.S. children through its Current Population Survey. The 2014 results were released by the Bureau last week, and the portrait they present of the family lives of 73.7 million American kids is certainly a variegated one.

Yet despite all the talk about the growing irrelevance of marriage, 43 million children, a 58-percent majority, were living with both their birth mother and biological father in a traditional married-couple family

 

I've dug through the Census Bureau's statistics and no where could I find any references to any breakdown of birth mothers and biological fathers making up their references to two parent households.  69.9% of children live in homes of two parents, but with a divorce rate (increasing over the past 18 years, to the current level of 50% males and 46% females, that 69.9% of children living in non-birth mothers/non-biological fathers skews that number considerably.

It would be helpful to have a reference as to where your statistics originate.  Other non-Census Bureau surveys puts that birth-mother/biological father parenting family at well below 50%.  Depending on other social, economic, and geographic factors the boys in any scouting unit would be tremendously impacted by the reality in which we live.

My point is not exactly how many of our boys are affected, but what is BSA addressing the strong evidence that such factors are present and can have an impact on legal liabilities facing Scouters in today's environment.

Case in point.  I have 2 boys with step fathers.  I really don't know which parent is the custodial parent and if the permission slips being signed are valid signatures.  Not that those slips are valid in the first place. 

 

Edited December 10, 2017 by Stosh

[Jameson76]

2 hours ago, Stosh said:

I've dug through the Census Bureau's statistics and no where could I find any references to any breakdown of birth mothers and biological fathers making up their references to two parent households.  69.9% of children live in homes of two parents, but with a divorce rate (increasing over the past 18 years, to the current level of 50% males and 46% females, that 69.9% of children living in non-birth mothers/non-biological fathers skews that number considerably.

It would be helpful to have a reference as to where your statistics originate.  Other non-Census Bureau surveys puts that birth-mother/biological father parenting family at well below 50%.  Depending on other social, economic, and geographic factors the boys in any scouting unit would be tremendously impacted by the reality in which we live.

My point is not exactly how many of our boys are affected, but what is BSA addressing the strong evidence that such factors are present and can have an impact on legal liabilities facing Scouters in today's environment.

Case in point.  I have 2 boys with step fathers.  I really don't know which parent is the custodial parent and if the permission slips being signed are valid signatures.  Not that those slips are valid in the first place. 

 

The numbers are from the Census Bureau

Noted in this article - 

https://ifstudies.org/blog/more-than-60-of-u-s-kids-live-with-two-biological-parents/

 

 

[Back Pack]

21 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

The numbers are from the Census Bureau

Noted in this article - 

https://ifstudies.org/blog/more-than-60-of-u-s-kids-live-with-two-biological-parents/

 

 

This is a survey as opposed to actual census data. It samples up to 60,000 people so any sampling will be skewed depending on the make up of the random sample. 

https://www.bls.gov/cps/documentation.htm

[Eagledad]

3 hours ago, David CO said:

I grew up in an extended family with 4 generations living under the same roof. It wasn't quite like The Waltons, though. We had much better insulation (soundproofing) in the walls. Good night, John-boy!

I always considered the extended family living arrangement to be very traditional, perhaps even quaint. I never thought of it as a modern lifestyle.

You really think your experience is in the same context of this discussion!🙄

[Stosh]

If the US Census Bureau says 69.1% of children live in a household of 2 parents and the second source says that 58% of those are birth-moms and biological fathers, that means that only 11% of the children out there live in a step-parent household.  I find that very difficult to believe.  I'm thinking someone has either the two groups are using different definitions, i.e. US Census Bureau means any household with 2 parents regardless of their previous marital status or the second group has some creative massaging of the numbers.

[MattR]

3 hours ago, Back Pack said:

This is a survey as opposed to actual census data. It samples up to 60,000 people so any sampling will be skewed depending on the make up of the random sample. 

https://www.bls.gov/cps/documentation.htm

And a rough back of the envelope calculation of the error bounds on a sample size of 60,000 in a population of 75 million children will give you an accuracy within one percent. i.e., there's a 99% probability that the answer is within 1%. A survey sample size of 60,000 people is really large.

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled program....