POR review

[Stosh]

If the Committee is going to do POR review, why not replace SMC's with committee members "helping out"?  And then the case could be made for the Committee determining Eagle projects and service projects.  I'm sure it would be great with the multiplicity of ideas that the Committee should be involved in the annual calendar of the unit as well.

 

OR..... the Committee could just do the job it's trained to do and that should fill up their time nicely.  If they can't get a "pulse" of the program out of the BOR's, they need to go back and review their training.

 

Maybe I need to start a thread on Helicopter Committees?  Whatcha think?

[Eagledad]

If the Committee is going to do POR review, why not replace SMC's with committee members "helping out"?  And then the case could be made for the Committee determining Eagle projects and service projects.  I'm sure it would be great with the multiplicity of ideas that the Committee should be involved in the annual calendar of the unit as well.

 

OR..... the Committee could just do the job it's trained to do and that should fill up their time nicely.  If they can't get a "pulse" of the program out of the BOR's, they need to go back and review their training.

 

Maybe I need to start a thread on Helicopter Committees?  Whatcha think?

If a volunteer doesn't agree with the BSA program (Vision, Mission, Aims, Methods, Values and so on), there are other organizations that may welcome that volunteer's time.

 

A committee just may have a concern when the SM is apprehensive about discussing the program. Why would a SM be apprehensive? And where else can a concerned parent calmly have a discussion with the SM than in the committee meeting? An internet forum?

 

The committee is one of the best opportunities for a SM to educate his program to the parents of the scouts. If the SM can't explain the reasoning for why and how the program works to the parents of the troop, then there might be reason for concern. The committee has the power to insure the program is safe and operating under the guidelines of the BSA.

 

Barry

[Scoutmaster Teddy]

Perhaps the committee members can't "stay in their own lane." Enough with the paperwork and multiple "checklists" that take time away from being scouts. The SPL/ASPL and Scoutmaster should be aware of any issues with POR's and act accordingly.

 

Scoutmaster Teddy

[TAHAWK]

"If a volunteer doesn't agree with the BSA program (Vision, Mission, Aims, Methods, Values and so on), there are other organizations that may welcome that volunteer's time."

[fred johnson]

I get scared when I see discussion of checklists and evaluation criteria.  IMHO, this is more a power issue and a way for adults to justify their position and also a way to insert themselves into the process.  

 

I'd highly recommend reading GTA and then BSA advancement news and other sources.

 

• BSA GTA section 4.2.3.4 ... https://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf
• BSA Advancement news ... https://www.scouting.org/Home/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/Advancement.aspx

 

I think the best comment comes from the Feb 2012 BSA advancement news ...  https://www.scouting.org/filestore/advancement_news/512-075_Feb.pdf

 

"In any of these scenarios if the youth makes a reasonable effort to fulfill the duties described, the requirement should be considered fulfilled."

 

IMHO, the best way to evaluate PORs is for the scout and the SM to talk about it during the scout's SMC.  It's the natural time to talk about how the scout his helping the troop and the natural place to sign off on the POR.

Edited November 13, 2017 by fred johnson

[Tampa Turtle]

We had a SM that had a 4 page POR contract with sign-offs, metrics, etc. We were tasked with going over the contract with each boy at the start of their term...their eyes would just glaze over after the first 15 seconds. I think it rarely works but adults have to put up with these things in the working world so why not spread the horror earlier? 

 

I have on occasion helped coach a few confounded POR's at the SPL's request (Historian, Librarian, OA Rep, Chaplin Aide). I would go over the BSA duties (for some like OA Rep it is pretty hard) and stress they need to DO something, what do they intend to do, do they need any help from the PLC (or me), etc. I can see a little counseling when they get 'stuck' but I see it as more of a Brownshirt than a Committee job.

[prof]

All,

Thanks so much for your replies!

My troop is in a bit of a rebuilding period.

I kinda figured how to proceed, but as a courtesy to the other committee members, thought I would ask your opinions in case I was missing something (which I often do!)

So again, my thanks!

 

Fred,

Thanks for those links!! Very useful!

Prof!

[John-in-KC]

This is the job of the Scoutmaster, teaching the SPL how to monitor performance. 

 

That's the long and short of it.

[TAHAWK]

We had success with "tickets" written by the Scout.   He had to have three measurable goals.  The "ticket" could only be one page.  The SM periodically discussed the SPL's progress with him.  The SPL periodically discussed the other position-holder's progress.  "Tickets" were subject to amendment pretty freely.  The hard part was helping them pick goals that they could control, rather than goals that depended heavily on others' performance.  The goals were to provide draw, not to be barriers.  Thought and planning was expected as training in life skills.  Effort was the major issue.

[qwazse]

@prof, let us know what your people ultimately settle on and how it works.

[Tampa Turtle]

We had success with "tickets" written by the Scout.   He had to have three measurable goals.  The "ticket" could only be one page.  The SM periodically discussed the SPL's progress with him.  The SPL periodically discussed the other position-holder's progress.  "Tickets" were subject to amendment pretty freely.  The hard part was helping them pick goals that they could control, rather than goals that depended heavily on others' performance.  The goals were to provide draw, not to be barriers.  Thought and planning was expected as training in life skills.  Effort was the major issue.

KISS principles apply here. Some boys will be extremely challenged planning the most ordinary duty and therefore this is a very worthwhile experience. When our Troop was large our ASPL monitored the progress and coordinated support so the SPL concentrated on the Patrol Leaders and Troop morale...

[Stosh]

How much of this adult "evaluations" add to the requirement?

 

SM: "Hey, Johnny, how's that new PL of yours doing?"

Scout: "Great!"

 

SM: "I see there's a new QM."

PL: "Yep, Freddie said he wanted to give it a shot.  Doing okay, but not as good as the last guy.  We'll get by as he gets better."

 

Really?  What's so difficult about this whole thing?  If the boys are happy with the POR set up, why aren't the adults?  Start with the adult's problem instead.

 

This whole thread reeks of year-end job performance management practices of a large corporation doing multiple evaluations deciding on some supervisor's job promotion.  Now, if that doesn't suck the fun out of the issue, nothing will.

[Eagledad]

 

 

This whole thread reeks of year-end job performance management practices of a large corporation doing multiple evaluations deciding on some supervisor's job promotion.  Now, if that doesn't suck the fun out of the issue, nothing will.

Really! The trend of the discussion appears just the opposite. I think the OP got very good responses.

 

Barry

[Scoutmaster Teddy]

How much of this adult "evaluations" add to the requirement?

 

SM: "Hey, Johnny, how's that new PL of yours doing?"

Scout: "Great!"

 

SM: "I see there's a new QM."

PL: "Yep, Freddie said he wanted to give it a shot.  Doing okay, but not as good as the last guy.  We'll get by as he gets better."

 

Really?  What's so difficult about this whole thing?  If the boys are happy with the POR set up, why aren't the adults?  Start with the adult's problem instead.

 

This whole thread reeks of year-end job performance management practices of a large corporation doing multiple evaluations deciding on some supervisor's job promotion.  Now, if that doesn't suck the fun out of the issue, nothing will.

 

Exactly! Let the boys deal with it.

 

Scoutmaster Teddy

[blw2]

Just my opinion, but it is not the job of the unit committee to monitor how each boy is doing in their position of reasonability.  Let me take that back they can monitor by getting feedback from the SM on how the SM on how they are feeling the position, but that is all.    Also for advancement purposes if the youth holds the position then they are signed off on that position no matter how good are bad a job they did in that position.  It is alright for the SM to meet with the SPL to help him become a better SPL, but when it comes to the other youth positions it should be left to the SPL and the other youth in the troop mentor them in their position. 

another way the committee can and should "monitor" this sort of thing is through the boards of review....with the goal being to monitor the "health" of the troop and advise the SM....nothing more

 

Is it just me or do the responses seem a bit harsh?  .....

well, I had a somewhat "harsh" reaction to reading the post

    I think tampa turtles photo nailed it....

        ...as a natural reaction to arm the anti-aircraft defenses!

 

It's just another example of helicopter adults with too much time on their hands apparently, making up new ways to over complicate the works