Issues that come up inside the Program

[Tampa Turtle]

David CO, you have hit on the next problem for these Scouts.  Who is doing what?   Is the Troop Committee supporting the SM and doing things "Transparently", or is the Substitute Sub Committee To Do Things Right Regardless Of What Anyone Else Thinks  doing things anyway? 

 

I think a Troop Flag should read the whole title, not be concerned with shaving cost by less letters, but  to "secretly" order the flag is both a really neat gift and an insult to the SM and his colleagues.  This is the very first flag the Troop has had, yes?   This might lead to a ceremonial presentation, a autographing of the flag by the SM  for history's sake...Is the SM appreciated, or resented somehow?

 

My home Troop , has been in business about 62 years now.  Four  years ago, it was realized the drooping, darkened Troop Flag AND the US flag next to it on the stage were both the same flags the Troop had in 1956 !   The US flag had 48 Stars!   Nobody had realized it  til then !   We went out and replaced the Troop Flag and US flag but no one could think of what to do with them.   So they are wrapped up in plastic in the back church closet.   The new flag has the new SM's signature on it, for the next 60 years.

Hard flag had a big hole in it from when a still-hot hot dutch oven was hurriedly loaded on top of it in the trailer one Sunday morning and the nylon melted. At summer camp a neighboring old scouter offered to repair it and now it is patched. Some of the boys wanted to just get a new one but we told them it was like a battle flag, scars and all. They did keep it and now tell the newbies all sorts of made up stories about the patch.

[Cleveland Rocks]

As each of you that has had to order a unit flag the main cost is dependent on the number of letters that are included on the flag.  Flag has to have Unit type which would be Troop  number, City, State and Charter organization name.  The least number that our unit could have on a flag is 22 letters and that would be with listing the Charter org as FFBC in stead of the full name.  At the end of the meeting while the SM had stepped out of the room I was asked by the group to make sure that the flag was not ordered by the SM.  These same parents had already ordered and paid for a Troop Flag.  New flag will have Charter Org full name and complete Council district name which did not have to be included on a unit flag for a total of 64 letters.

 

I realize this is minor in the grand scheme of this discussion, but that "price is dependent on the number of letters" is a thing of the past.  The new unit flags are nylon and screened with everything printed right on it.  No longer do they sew individual letters and numbers on unit flags.  The size of the flag determines its price.  They'll even add the unit veteran emblem for no extra charge.  When we ordered our Jamboree flags it was the same way--they all cost the same not matter how much or little detail we put on it.

[qwazse]

@ValleyBoy, All this means is you have pro-active parents.

Now the hard work is to constantly remind them that you want their kids to be as proactive as they are.

We're having the same issue.

[ValleyBoy]

This is not good news. The boys should be planning and running the fundraisers.

 

I realize this is minor in the grand scheme of this discussion, but that "price is dependent on the number of letters" is a thing of the past.  The new unit flags are nylon and screened with everything printed right on it.  No longer do they sew individual letters and numbers on unit flags.  The size of the flag determines its price.  They'll even add the unit veteran emblem for no extra charge.  When we ordered our Jamboree flags it was the same way--they all cost the same not matter how much or little detail we put on it.

Thanks for that information it has been several years back since I had checked the information on ordering a flag.

[ValleyBoy]

@ValleyBoy, All this means is you have pro-active parents.

Now the hard work is to constantly remind them that you want their kids to be as proactive as they are.

We're having the same issue.

The parents have been very hands off when it coming to the way the weekly scout meeting have been run.  From what I have seen there are no helicopter parents in this group.   

[Stosh]

I have a problem with the boys planning and running fundraisers.  If a boy wishes to do that, I don't get involved.  Fundraising is not part of the BSA program for boys.  I let my parents know, up front, that Scouting can be expensive and they can either 1) pay for it out of their pockets, or 2) run fundraisers so it won't cost them so much.

 

The boys don't have to participate in the actual fundraiser, but to-date, no one has opted out.  The money is partitioned out as a certain % going to the troop, and a % going to the participating patrols.  The committee decides how the troop money is spent and the boys decide how the patrol money is spent.  There are bragging rights throughout the year as to who can raise the most in popcorn sales.  The winner is generally coming in over $2500 in sales.  Each year the competition gets a bit more friendly fierce and the funds keep coming in enough to cover all but $50 for summer camp.  We are a troop in an economically depressed part of town and yet the boys are not missing out because of costs.  Yes. we do have a flag.

[ValleyBoy]

Do you really not see the problem here?

 

No I do not. First off none of the money raised was used to pay for the new flag.   Most the raise money will be used to help cover part of the cost for Summer Camp.  Also several of our scouts are from economically depressed families an some of these funds could be used to assist them with cost associated with the scouting program. 

[David CO]

Fundraising is not part of the BSA program for boys.  

 

No it isn't. The boys are supposed to pay their own way.

[Stosh]

This is not good news. The boys should be planning and running the fundraisers.

 

 

No it isn't. The boys are supposed to pay their own way.

 

So which is it?

[ValleyBoy]

David CO, you have hit on the next problem for these Scouts.  Who is doing what?   Is the Troop Committee supporting the SM and doing things "Transparently", or is the Substitute Sub Committee To Do Things Right Regardless Of What Anyone Else Thinks  doing things anyway? 

 

I think a Troop Flag should read the whole title, not be concerned with shaving cost by less letters, but  to "secretly" order the flag is both a really neat gift and an insult to the SM and his colleagues.  This is the very first flag the Troop has had, yes?   This might lead to a ceremonial presentation, a autographing of the flag by the SM  for history's sake...Is the SM appreciated, or resented somehow?

 

My home Troop , has been in business about 62 years now.  Four  years ago, it was realized the drooping, darkened Troop Flag AND the US flag next to it on the stage were both the same flags the Troop had in 1956 !   The US flag had 48 Stars!   Nobody had realized it  til then !   We went out and replaced the Troop Flag and US flag but no one could think of what to do with them.   So they are wrapped up in plastic in the back church closet.   The new flag has the new SM's signature on it, for the next 60 years.

Yes the Troop Committee supporting the scoutmaster.

 

The SM brought up the subject of the flag.  I have work with the SM inside the scouting program for 13 years and have know him for even longer and in no way will he insulted by these parents ordering this flag behind his back.

[ValleyBoy]

No it isn't. The boys are supposed to pay their own way.

True but our Troop will never turn a boy away because he and his family does not have the resources to pay the actual full cost for him to be in the program.  All we ask of each boy is that they do there best.  

Edited November 8, 2017 by ValleyBoy

[David CO]

The boys should be planning and running the fundraisers.

 

No it isn't. The boys are supposed to pay their own way.

 

So which is it?

 

BSA has always suggested that boys do small fundraising projects like collecting recyclables, mowing lawns, raking leaves, shoveling sidewalks, washing cars, etc.. This is what I meant by boys planning and running their own fundraisers. 

 

These small fundraisers are not at all inconsistent with the scouting ideal of pay your own way. So it is not really a question of "which is it".

Edited November 8, 2017 by David CO

[David CO]

True but our Troop will never turn a boy away because he and his family does not have the resources to pay the actual full cost for him to be in the program.  All we ask of each boy is that they do there best.  

 

That is where the Chartered Organization is supposed to step up.

[Stosh]

Not everyone has deep pocket CO's. 

[ValleyBoy]

BSA has always suggested that boys do small fundraising projects like collecting recyclables, mowing lawns, raking leaves, shoveling sidewalks, washing cars, etc.. This is what I meant by boys planning and running their own fundraisers. 

 

These small fundraisers are not at all inconsistent with the scouting ideal of pay your own way. So it is not really a question of "which is it".

In our city our scouts ( or anyone else) can mow lawns or rake leafs an receive a fee for those services without a city business license.  Do you want  us as adults  to allow our youth to break the law.  Per city law they could only do the above as "Good Deeds" 

Closest location that buys recyclables is so far away that by the time to you take the cost to  transport the recyclables to them your in the hole.

Does not snow in our area plus sidewalk shoveling would fall under the same city laws as mowing lawns.

So out of your list that only leaves car washing as a fund raising idea that our boys can use with out breaking the law inside our city.

 

Now our boys have had a yard sale in the past an made and were able to make all of an average of less than 10 dollars each.  Location were yard sale is held can only have a total of 6 yard sales a year lasting only 1 day each with a no cost city yard sale permit. 

 

One thing I do know is that breaking the law is not part of the BSA program.

Edited November 8, 2017 by ValleyBoy