Issues that come up inside the Program

[ValleyBoy]

We had the following issue come up in the past several months and this he how we resolved the issue.  At the end of the school year our troop adult leadership took on the 2nd year Webelos from our local Cub Scout Pack. (Different Charter Intuitions)    There were 9 Webelos in the 2nd year Webelos den.  All 9 had completed and been awarded their Webelos Rank when the troop took over the den.  We took over the den due to the fact that there den leaders had no idea how a Boy Scout Troop worked to be able to complete most of the requirements for the Arrow of Light Award. 

 

As Unit Commissioner for both the Pack and Troop along with being an ASM with the Troop I knew that the Pack was not very good at record keeping and getting advancements into the system with the Council. Our former DE for the district had been entering all advancements reports into the system.  To insure that that all advancements were in the system for these 9 Webelos, I took on the responsibility of making sure all there advancements were in the system and up to date.  The issue that we became aware of was that the Pack for some reason had not registered one of the Webelos as a member of the Pack.  The youth threw no fault of his own or his family was left of the units charter when the unit re-chartered at the first of the year. Therefor we registered the youth with the pack them added the advancements that he had completed into the system.  Due to this youth age we could have taken the easy way out and just registered him with the Troop but that would have not been fair to him since he would have been the only one out of the 9 that would  completed all the requirements for the Arrow of Light Award  but not be able to receive the award since he was not registered with the Pack thru not fault of his own.     

[qwazse]

Good work! And, a big sacrifice on the part of your troop to make things work well for these boys.

It sounds like your council took the registration fee for the boy, so absolutely he should be on the pack charter.

 

If they never collected fees from the boy, so that he was somehow dropped from the charter, see what else you can do to set the record straight. It may not matter to the boy now, but talk to your council registrar about the problem and see if you can have the boy's record show that he was a member of his pack continuously from whenever he started to now. This may mean someone ponying up fees in arrears.

 

I've had venturers come to me about maintaining continuous years of service so that any service stars they had would keep counting. (These were youth who were giving back to scouting at a Council or Area level, so they weren't asking their name to idly sit on a roll somewhere. They just wanted to have a "home" crew while their life was quite transient.) I thought they were odd for caring about such things, but what do I know? I helped them keep their paperwork in order.

 

Maybe this scout of yours will never give his years in cubs a second thought. Or if he does, he's not going to worry about what some electronic record says. But, he might be that odd duck who won't report more years in his pack that what council officially tells him. So, ironing out the record now might spare him dealing with glitches later.

[ValleyBoy]

He joined the pack last fall during the round up so his years of service would only be off by one year at the most.  Our main concern was the Arrow of Light Award since it is the only one he can carry over and wear as a Boy Scout and later in life as a Adult if he stays involved with the program as an adult.

[qwazse]

He joined the pack last fall during the round up so his years of service would only be off by one year at the most.  Our main concern was the Arrow of Light Award since it is the only one he can carry over and wear as a Boy Scout and later in life as a Adult if he stays involved with the program as an adult.

Understood!

But believe me, it can be the things like this that these boys, once they're older, wind up caring about. If he was in the pack since last fall, make a phone call and do what you can to set the record straight.

 

Besides, knowing your council registrar on first name basis is always good practice.

[David CO]

 

We took over the den due to the fact that there den leaders had no idea how a Boy Scout Troop worked to be able to complete most of the requirements for the Arrow of Light Award. 

    

 

If I were the IH of this cub scout unit, I would be irate. First, I would ban your troop from my building. Second, I would raise all sorts of "Cain" with the council.

 

Those den leaders were appointed by their Chartered Organization. You weren't.

 

The fact that you consider this unit to be your "feeder" unit doesn't give you ownership or authority to make any changes in its leadership or programs.

Edited November 6, 2017 by David CO

[RememberSchiff]

Is this a Putin-Crimea joke?

 

A scout troop didn't like the way a Cub Pack was run so they took over the Webelos den with knowledge and assistance by UC and DE?

[ValleyBoy]

If I were the IH of this cub scout unit, I would be irate. First, I would ban your troop from my building. Second, I would raise all sorts of "Cain" with the council.

 

Those den leaders were appointed by their Chartered Organization. You weren't.

 

The fact that you consider this unit to be your "feeder" unit doesn't give you ownership or authority to make any changes in its leadership or programs.

Our Troop  was asked by the Cub Scout Packmaster and the Webelo Den Leaders  to do this.    I can see why you might feel this way but I know for a fact that this Pack would fold if the entire recruitment of adult leadership was left up to the Charter organization.  I also know for a fact that the Charter Organization Rep and the Executive Officer of the Charter Organization would have signed off on what was done if they would have been asked.

 

The Troop did not approach the Pack in the above case but was approached by the Pack for assistance.

Edited November 6, 2017 by ValleyBoy

[Stosh]

We did this process a couple of years past when one of our ASM's offered up AOL training for any boy that wished to make sure they got it.  Boys from 3 different packs attended.  Some stayed with us, others went to other troops.

 

The reason for this was that we heard that the Webelos leaders weren't interested or were burned out at the prospect of pushing through until the end.  One of the packs didn't even have den meetings, only pack meetings!

 

A lot of the problems with adult-led units is that it is assumed that the adults will actually lead.  When they don't the boys suffer.

[David CO]

I also know for a fact that the Charter Organization Rep and the Executive Officer of the Charter Organization would have signed off on what was done if they would have been asked.

 

 

Then why didn't you ask them?

 

When I was an IH, I would have never approved an arrangement whereby the unit is run by a defacto leadership different from the one I appointed and listed on the recharter papers. 

[Eagle94-A1]

David,

 

First off, THANK YOU for doing the COR job likes it's suppose to be done. Sadly, in my 25 years as a Scouter, i can count on one hand how many did what they were suppose to do.

 

All,

 

This exact situation, having experienced Boy Scouters go back and help Webelos is something I too have seen done. ASM saw some challenges with the WDLs, and ended up becoming the WDL. Unlike David, the COR is a paper one with that pack & troop, so when the paperwork came across, it was signed automatically by the CO.

 

One reason why I was thinking of going back to Cubs, to work with the Webelos and make the transition a lot better. The new Scouts from that pack, and especially the parents, are still in Cub Scout mode. Kinda sad when Scouts viewing some of the posts on Facebook that the new parents are making are saying 'we need to limit who can post on the facebook page," and " It's starting to turn into Cub Scouts."

[ValleyBoy]

Is this a Putin-Crimea joke?

 

A scout troop didn't like the way a Cub Pack was run so they took over the Webelos den with knowledge and assistance by UC and DE?

As the Unit Commissioner I was asked by the Cub Scout Packmaster if the Scout Troop could assist the 2nd year Webelos Den.  At that time our district did not have a DE and the position was not filled by the Council until  close to the end of September.  We informed our new DE when he started the job .  Also as a Unit Commissioner I informed our District Commissioner of all actions taking place between the Troop and the Pack..  As Unit Commissioner I contacted the council registrar about the Cub Scout Units advancements being entered with the Council since I knew it was a problem with the Cub Scout Pack.  As unit commissioner I know that advancement were given out to the other dens inside the pack back in May.  I have talked to the Cubmaster about getting these advancements into the system so that they can be recorded.  I even have gone so far as to let her know if she will get the advancement information to me that I would assist her in recording the advancement.  I know for a fact that none of the advancements for the other dens inside the pack have been recorded. 

 

Unit Recharter which is due January has been an issue with this Pack the last two years along with advancements being turned in to the Council. The Pack at this time has good Den Leaders with the Wolf and Bear dens.  There Cubmaster would have stepped down last year when the unit rechartered if unit would have has someone to step up into the position.  As Unit Commissioner I know this will be issue with the Pack.  From past dealing with the Units Charter Organization I know that they will not be much help in filling this position unless things have changed which I doubt.  How I know this is because since 2001 the Charter Organization has just signed off on who was the Cubmaster from which parent from the youth in the unit that was willing to step up and fill the position.  The Packs Charter Organization used to be the  CO to both the Troop I now work with and also a Pack.  Due to lack of involvement by the CO with both the pack and troop both units approached the CO about changing to another CO for both units.  The CO agreed to this change at that time.(8 years ago).  4 years ago the Packs new Packmaster who was a member of the old CO for both units approached the new CO about moving the Pack back to the old CO since he was a member of that CO.  This change took place at that time, but one year later he changed jobs and left the area.  The present CM of the Pack stepped up to fill the position at that time.  The Packs CO down thru the years has never giving much support to the pack and only really rubber stamped the actions that have took place by in the day to day operations of the units that they have been the Charter Organization  over.  I wish they would take more involvement with the unit but I just do not see this happening just from past history.    .

[ValleyBoy]

Then why didn't you ask them?

 

When I was an IH, I would have never approved an arrangement whereby the unit is run by a defacto leadership different from the one I appointed and listed on the recharter papers. 

Because at that time I did not see it as an issue. 

[ValleyBoy]

David,

 

First off, THANK YOU for doing the COR job likes it's suppose to be done. Sadly, in my 25 years as a Scouter, i can count on one hand how many did what they were suppose to do.

 

All,

 

This exact situation, having experienced Boy Scouters go back and help Webelos is something I too have seen done. ASM saw some challenges with the WDLs, and ended up becoming the WDL. Unlike David, the COR is a paper one with that pack & troop, so when the paperwork came across, it was signed automatically by the CO.

 

One reason why I was thinking of going back to Cubs, to work with the Webelos and make the transition a lot better. The new Scouts from that pack, and especially the parents, are still in Cub Scout mode. Kinda sad when Scouts viewing some of the posts on Facebook that the new parents are making are saying 'we need to limit who can post on the facebook page," and " It's starting to turn into Cub Scouts."

As the Unit commissioner I also wish that the packs COR would take a more active role inside the program but it is just not the case with this unit.  So as the units commissioner I try and assist the unit as best as I can with the resources that I have to help the youth get the best program possible.   

[Stosh]

Not many boys are brave enough to challenge the authority of the adults in an adult-led troop.  It has to be initiated by the adults...all of them.  I don't know of many adults that are really willing to risk doing that as it's supposed to be done.

[Eagle94-A1]

Not many boys are brave enough to challenge the authority of the adults in an adult-led troop.  It has to be initiated by the adults...all of them.  I don't know of many adults that are really willing to risk doing that as it's supposed to be done.

 

Understatement. We had a group that started pushing back, but as the adults did more and took decisions away from them, they appear to have said "The heck with it."