Ideas for better camporees

[MattR]

I'm splitting off from the other thread about camporees counting as campouts because this really is a different topic.

 

It turns out I'm likely going to be the new district camping chair which means I get to come up with 3 good campouts a year - Klondike, spring, and fall camporees, so your help is appreciated.

 

It seems there are a couple of issues.

1. Interesting and new events.
2. Making events a challenge that don't turn into some troop overloading patrols.
3. Limited resources so, for example, doing shot gun at a camporee would be hard.
4. Getting some scouts involved in helping with this.

Our current camporees all tend to follow the same recipe - a dozen or so events, all of which take about 10 minutes each. The feedback I always got as SM was that the scouts preferred events that were at least an hour. This means the event should be able to handle a lot of scouts, like 8 patrols at a time.

 

As for competitions that aren't loaded, what if there were categories, such as take the average age of everyone in the patrol?

 

I was going to go to some troops and see if any older scouts were interested in helping at least decided on the events. It could be a way for older scouts to find something important and challenging.

 

Anyway, ideas are welcome.

 

Like anything else, a camporee should have some clear value. Klondikes are (supposed to be) different from the usual. But I've been to far too many camporees that are just round-robin Scout skill contests - start a fire, tie knots, set up a tent, load a pack, do first aid. They have to appeal to both younger patrols and experienced Scouts, and so fail at doing both.

I'd love to see a camporee that had a single clear focus or special program - like kayaking, reflector oven cooking, orienteering, woodcarving. The outlay in getting qualified program staff and equipment for a district full of Scouts would be a significant challenge, however.

 

 

I have noticed that the single program emphasis on a topic relevant to the scouts does draw more units than the round-robin competition camporees.  Of course the verbiage is important.  A scout will quickly see through an feeble attempt at this when one comes up with a Zombie knot tying, Zombie first aid, Zombie, fire-starting competition.

 

I like the idea of a single topic outing, kayaking/canoeing, orienteering, etc. type of approach. 

 

...

 

There are ways of sprucing up the camporees, but it takes a bit of thinking outside the box and a lot more planning than showing up at the last minute and throwing something together Friday night at the cracker barrel.

 

[Stosh]

Maybe it's time to start having the boys plan the camporees instead of the adults.  I hear little or no discussion about how scouts are involved in their camporees.  Adults plan them, adults run them and then the adults scratch their heads as to why no scouts or units as a whole are showing up.  ASK THE BOYS what they want out of the event.  That for me is what scouting is all about.

 

If the adults are planning and running camporees, it is their fault if no one shows up.  This is why I always put the boys first.  It's a learning process and if something goes awry, it's never the adults taking the heat.  The more the adults get involved the less the boys have an opportunity to grow and develop their ideas for what scouting is supposed to be.

 

As district camping chairperson, it's not up to you to make it happen, it's up to you to assist the boys to make it happen.  This is their program, get their input.  Set a date 2 months before the next camporee, gather up all the PL's in the district at a meeting centrally located and hold a district PLC meeting to find out what their boys want.  If no one shows up, it will tell you 1) how important the camporees are to the boys, 2) how much work you're going to have to put in on this effort and 3) whether or not district camping chairperson is a feasible position in your district.  If the boys do show up, LISTEN to what they have to say, take notes, and let them have free rein with the process.  If the ideas are dumb, so what, it's THEIR ideas that count.  Instead of sled races, they want to ice fish.  Go for it.  Instead of competitions, they want to do an Iron Chef competition.  Go for it.  They want to do a pioneering project.  Sounds fine with me.

 

What it boils down to is I don't know what the boys want to really do, and no one else does except the boys.  Start with them, go with them, end with them.  It's their program.

 

Okay with the suggestions:  The boys want to do first aid?  Great, Saturday morning they get a first aid demonstration from a Red Cross instructor or an off-duty paramedic, have lunch and then the local hospital's med-flight makes an appearance along with one of the local ambulances for tours.  Just because the boys want a program, doesn't mean the adults can't spice it up a bit.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Stosh

[qwazse]

Whatever you do, if you invite enthusiastic young adults or youth to promote an adventurous camporee (like a canoe trip), shout down any scouters who would pan it, get buy-in from a couple of troops who would lock it into their schedule, and commit to calling every unit leader in the district personally to promote it.

 

Shooting sports at a local sportsmans club was really successful one year. Multiple ranges, well trained adults, as well as enthusiastic volunteers, including a local game Commisioner.

[Eagle94-A1]

I agree partially Stosh. I agree that you need to get the Scouts' input as to what events to do. They know what they like to do.

 

I disagree with him in  having them run events. That's because i feel the event  is for them and they should be having fun. BUT I would not stop them from helping if that is what they want to do.  In fact I had two JASMs  from 1 troop run an event at my camporee due to mobility issues with their adults.

 

I did camporee for 2 years. First year it was thrown together in 2 months since the person in charge dropped the ball and quit. I used the Scouts in my troop, and some in my church, as a sounding board. Many, but not all, of their ideas were used. Some we just didn't have the time to put together,

 

After the campfire the first year, I had a campwide PLC to get feedback and ideas from the Scouts. Very productive, and almost all of their ideas from that meeting were used. We had a planning meeting in which Scouts were invited. Tweeks to the ideas from the PLC, and some different, better ideas that the Scouts at the meeting had were incorporated. We had a lot of folks leave after campfire the second year, so the second campwide PLC was not as robust, but lots of good ideas came about and there is a consensus on next year's theme; Pioneering.

 

Now what did my Scouts like? They like the Air-to Ground signals event with a drone.  The troop running it has a drone up and take pictures to show the guys what it actually appears. Plus the drone simulated arial responses. Another event was the three fires with no matches. Blowguns was popular, but they rather do archery.

 

Qwazse mentions getting some influential folks to back the more adventurous camporee ideas. THAT IS 110% CORRECT!!!!! The idea from the Scouts was survival and getting away from the trailers. I had so many complaints about not having trailers from adults, that I said the heck with it. We had one troop that did backpack i though. I really wish I could have gotten them to push the no trailer idea.

[Chisos]

Agreed with the replies above about getting the scouts in on more of the planning.  I "ran" our district camporee recently, and we had a pre-camporee "SPL meeting" about 3 weeks out to plan some stuff out.  That seemed to work pretty well.

 

Maybe have a "service Troop" tasked with running the events.  They don't compete so they don't win anything, but maybe recruit a couple of supporting adults to cook and clean for them (or at least make them a cobbler or two.)  Or get the OA or a Venturing Crew to run the events.

 

Also, maybe throw in a couple of silly or just for fun events.  Most things on skills, but some fun events or free time is also good.

[SSScout]

1)  Park the trailers and HIKE IN . Nothing but what you carry into the site.   This does not include the water spigot or fire circles, which would be already there (OA service?)

 

2)  Set up the Camporee as a town.  Lay out streets and signposts and such.   Each Troop has their own street?   Award "Civic Pride"  prizes for best town arrangements: Gates, pioneer tables, fire departments, "landscaping" (leave no trace?) stuff like that.  

 

3)  Try to arrange so NOBODY wants to leave by 9am sunday.   They should WANT to stay another day, and MAYBE get home for dinner sunday.  

 

4)  Talk to the folks that would like a "Sabbath Friendly"   Camporee.  What would it take to allow such?   Would the schools allow an absence on a Monday or a Friday, somehow, could that be negotiated for your Scouts? Waaaay back in the prehistoric Scout past, such things could and were arranged with our local schools.  

 

5)  Patrol competitions are what make Camporees exciting.  Include Patrol Spirit in counting points.

 

6)  Absolutely get the Scouts (SPLs?  PLs? ) to plan it . Invite those ScoutLeaders to the Round Table ! 

 

7)  What Stosh and Qwazse  said.

 

8) Invite me . I wanna see it work. 

[MattR]

First year it was thrown together in 2 months since the person in charge dropped the ball and quit

Well, I have about a month to get the ideas out so we can start pushing it and troops can have time to prepare. I just signed up for this today. I'd like to get it to the point where there's plenty of time and plenty of scouts and adults that are interested in it but I have to get this going. I'm here asking for ideas so when I start asking scouts what they'd like to do I can give them some ideas they can work from. And yes, I'll be open to suggestions.

 

One challenge is the next campout is klondike and that means lots of snow for us. Some ideas I have so far, A few of which we've done before:

 

Curling with frozen milk jugs.

 

Biathlon with wrist rockets

 

Interpretive snow dancing (bring your own music and speakers)

 

Fire building. Make fires different ways (match, hot spark, 9v battery, match with home made starter)

 

Mash up of the low cope centipede thing with 2x8 snow shoes, along with a snowball fight. So, several patrols at a time, bring your own snowballs, that can only be thrown while on the giant snow shoes. 1 point for hitting another patrol, 2 for hitting a bucket in the middle of the field. This would be a good teamwork event.

 

soccer, in the snow

 

something with Frisbees. How about a 50' wide field that each patrol has to get the frizbee across but it can't touch the snow (else you start over). You could run but running in the snow is hard, so spread your patrol out and pass the frisbee from scout to scout.

 

If we can get the gear, find avalanche beacons.

 

How about cardboard sleds? Kind of like cardboard canoes. Would it be improper to make a fire on the sled, drag it 10 feet, and then dump it into a fire barrel? Might have to be the last event.

 

Get your patrol and gear over a 3' high fence without touching it. We used to call it the scout toss because the smallest scout goes first. The tallest has to jump the fence at the end or just take the penalty.

 

We've always had a gear check but they often require silly things that the scouts would never use, or things like water bottles that are freezing cold as opposed to warm water held inside a jacket. Rather than just points for having it, maybe more points for doing it better? Like more points for having a patrol flag that's at least a year old vs 3 months vs 1 week. Or patrols that show up at flags with their patrol flags get more points, but none for their troop flag.

 

make a survival shelter, and then eat lunch in it.

 

A lot of these events could be scored differently based on, say, the average age in the patrol.

 

One thing we've always done and I'll continue is have an auction (based on points they've earned) in the evening so they can stay out of the cold and out of their tents when the temps start really dropping. The scouts really enjoy it.

[ItsBrian]

Your district doesn’t have a first aid rally?

[Back Pack]

In Scouts I originally liked camporees for the competition. By 15 I wanted something more laid back and fun. When I got to Venturing I really es like their rendezvous format. It’s like a camporee but your crew chooses which events they want. You get your choice of 5-6 events but there’s like 10-15 to choose from. There at no ribbons or prizes, just inter crew head to head competition for bragging rights. I would have really liked this in Boy Scouts.

[ValleyBoy]

One type district camporee that we have had success with in the past was more of an interactive camporee.  At this type camporee out troop has set up our campsite and all our scouts 1840's clothing.  We demonstrate char cloth and starting fire with real flint and steel.  Also demonstrate   starting friction fires.  Flint napping, Animal hide curing.  Another troop in the district that is really into year round hammock camping demonstrates the different type hammock set up.  We have had a blacksmith station also set up and have civil war/war of 1812 re-enactors come in and do demonstrations.  The camporee is set up more as a show and tell of different scouting camping skills that not every troop and or scout will be exposed to in there scouting career. 

[Stosh]

When we had our Civil War camporee, I dragged out all my CW items and after the competition I held an in promptu demonstration and discussion on the life of the CW soldier.  They were quite impressed that I was camping as a CW soldier for the weekend instead of using modern equipment.After 2+ hours the boys were upset when the "powers that be", i.e. adults in the units came over and broke up the session and made the boys go back to camp to start making supper. 

 

A few years back I set up a safety range and had the boys get a chance to fire a .58 caliber 1863 Enfield rifle-musket.  That event took up the whole of Saturday afternoon. 

 

I have attended camporees that had the Young Eagles program come in, do ground-school and then take the boys for a flight thus earning their Aviation MB over the weekend.

 

I have attended camporees where they were held at a historical site and groups like Rendezvous re-enactors came in and set up stations on tomahawk/knife throwing, flint/steel fire starting, campfire cooking, etc.  Civil War re-enactors will do the same thing.  I used to do it every year for a handful of local schools in the area. 

 

If one were to ask any of these types of groups to come in and do a "school presentation" for the boys, most of the good groups would jump at the chance.

[Eagledad]

In Scouts I originally liked camporees for the competition. By 15 I wanted something more laid back and fun. When I got to Venturing I really es like their rendezvous format. It’s like a camporee but your crew chooses which events they want. You get your choice of 5-6 events but there’s like 10-15 to choose from. There at no ribbons or prizes, just inter crew head to head competition for bragging rights. I would have really liked this in Boy Scouts.

Maybe, but I believe what killed the competition camporees are the demonstration camporees of today. I think that is a result of same age patrols, but that is a different discussion. Ironically Back Pack, you as an older scout wanted less competition, but I found that camporees in our area don't attract the older scouts because they lack competition.

 

Our scouts chose if they wanted camporees and we did a couple. But they were in retrospect boring compared to our more adventurous campouts. Camporees today are just demonstrations, not competitions. And it's hard to impress active troops with demonstrations. Our troop was a few times invited to be the demonstrators.

 

Looking back and comparing my scouting experience in the 60s/70s to the scouting between 1990 thru 2010 is that the patrols today struggle to get as much practice with patrol method as we got back then. As a youth, our troop required the patrols to spend four hours on a few Saturdays to practice skills for camporees. Camporees back then were serious business. Troops and patrols made reputations at district camporees. But when I look back, those four hours was some of the best most intense patrol method scouting we did outside of camping. It was up to the Patrol Leader to get us at the top of our game. I was never closer to my patrol mates than around the time of camporees, and I was never a sharper scout because we practiced everything from scouts skills to proper uniforming. Everything was judged, so everything was practiced, including making decisions based from the oath and law. It was a great patrol experience. I needed my experience as a leader today to compare and understand the difference.

 

Today it's not only a fight to consider camporees, it's almost a waste of time compared to our troop activities. As a troop, we have planned several trooporees because I find that patrol method is more intense in the planning than in the competitions. Two themes our troop really likes is night competitions and adventure competitions.

 

The night competition starts after the campfire and usually finishes about 3:00 am in the morning. Our troop has organized night comporee competitions under the Star Wars and Star Trek theme. Something about having to navigate through the skills competitions in the middle of the night that adds that much more excitement. How many troops have done orienteering at 1:00 am?

 

The adventure competition theme is where the scouts, hike, bike and canoe through the skills. And that can be expanded as much as you want. We do it in one day, but  a Venture Crew in one district does a three day camporee where the scouts have to break camp and backpack to three different campsites. They have to stop for skills competitions along their route.

 

I once planned a similar Camporee for our district where the patrols would be assigned a campsite Friday night and have to back pack five miles to the main town park where all the patrols would meet together. Each patrol would have to find and stop at skills competitions on their way to the park. The public would be invited to park to see scouting at its best, and attended the campfire in the football stadium. I couldn't get it approved by the District. So it is still a dream.

 

From watching the attitudes of the scouts, the only reason camporees hang on today is because the adults force them. And honestly I'm not sure if asking scouts to plan them would help all that much. Our troop does a good job with trooporees, but even those require a lot of planning. The logistics of getting scouts from all over the district to plan a camporee would require a lot of leadership from somebody. Unless a Venture Crew or the OA takes on that challenge, it will  fall on the adults. And they are pretty boring.

 

By the way, one suggestion I have for a camporee is keep the adults away from the campfire. It seems adults think scouts are entertained by Wood Badge presentations. 

 

Barry

Edited November 6, 2017 by Eagledad

[qwazse]

@MattR, this ....

... I once planned a similar Camporee for our district where the patrols would be assigned a campsite Friday night and have to back pack five miles to the main town park where all the patrols would meet together. Each patrol would have to find and stop at skills competitions on their way to the park. The public would be invited to park to see scouting at its best, and attended the campfire in the football stadium. I couldn't get it approved by the District. So it is still a dream. ...

Whatever you do, representing your district ... help your scouters and their scouts make their dreams come true.

 

If one troop comes up with an idea, and another troop is willing to back them, lean hard on everyone else to rally behind their idea. Challenge any naysayers to come up with a better plan for the next camporee.

 

This might not even be someone providing a theme for the entire camporee. But maybe one troop wants to provide some awesome dutch-oven desert for SPL/PL's cracker barrel. Rally everyone around that hour.

 

A troop says they have a bunch of older boys not into competition? Ask them to come direct traffic, form your color guard, lead a scout's own service, or escort parent observers around the grounds.

[Col. Flagg]

Maybe, but I believe what killed the competition camporees are the demonstration camporees of today. I think that is a result of same age patrols, but that is a different discussion. Ironically Back Pack, you as an older scout wanted less competition, but I found that camporees in our area don't attract the older scouts because they lack competition.

 

In my area it was the intensity of the competitions, driven by adults, that turned off my troop. The mega troops in our area would get the program in advance as to what "games" were going to be offered; then they would practice them at meetings for months. These troops would even organize their patrols around the best Scouts at each event and enter them as a patrol. Talk about ringers!! It got so bad that our Scouts simply stopped going to events and just hung out at camp. 

 

I agree with @BackPack, my unit would rather just see demonstrations and participate than compete. Having spoken to the medium and smaller troops in my district, they would agree.

[Eagledad]

In my area it was the intensity of the competitions, driven by adults, that turned off my troop. The mega troops in our area would get the program in advance as to what "games" were going to be offered; then they would practice them at meetings for months. These troops would even organize their patrols around the best Scouts at each event and enter them as a patrol. Talk about ringers!! It got so bad that our Scouts simply stopped going to events and just hung out at camp. 

 

I agree with @BackPack, my unit would rather just see demonstrations and participate than compete. Having spoken to the medium and smaller troops in my district, they would agree.

Your experience is not the same as Back Pack's. And that is too bad because honest competition camporees are a lot of fun and a great patrol method experience. Because of your experience, your troop wouldn't be interested in our Night Camporees because they only want demonstrations. Our night camporees were still competitive.

 

Barry