How would the ideal scout poll work?

[NJCubScouter]

I guess there are always going to be those who use a screwdriver as a pry bar, or a hammer to pound in screws.  A tool (or program) is designed to do a certain function (BOY scouts), but I'm sure there are those that will get some mileage out of pounding screws.

 

If I was a hammer and was tasked with pounding nails, I could get really good at doing what I'm supposed to be doing.  However, if the boss hands me screws and expects me to do the same job, it'll work, but not as well.  I work with both same-sex youth groups and co-ed youth groups.  They are hardly the same thing.  Many different variants.  The Boy Scout program is not designed for co-ed, never has been, that's why Exploring and Venturing struggle.  So, the handwriting on the wall says, Cubs and Boy Scouts will struggle, too.  Sure, a screw that has been pounded in with a hammer will work, but never as good as one that has been driven in with a screwdriver.

 

I am not defending the decision, I am just saying I am not going to quit over it, and I don't think most other Scouters are going to either.

[blw2]

I think the bit about weight given based on years of service is interesting on at least a few levels

1) I think the point is true enough in some cases....

2) but not necessarily if the point of the poll is to find out what an outsider's perspective is....or a perspective of a new recruit....etc...

3) whenever I hear someone say to someone ...I've been doing this job for 15 years, you've been doing it one.  Often times a person might make a sound argument that he's been doing it wrong for 15 years....or 14 of those 15 years...or.... well, you get the idea.  Time of experience doesn't mean that it was good experience.

4) and then there's the aspect for things.... dynamic movement vs locked into doing things the old ways and not able to adapt to new ways....

 

 

On the subject of polls.  I just received one this morning from national.  addressed to "the parent of"....Questions all about "family". 

"What value does your family get from scouting."

"How do the values that scouting teach help your family"

 

I made it clear in many of my answers that scouting is the journey of the scout, not the family's journey

[Stosh]

Years of experience varies from one person to the next even though they have the same number of years.  I agree with @blw2 on this.  After 45+ years of working with youth, I do not approach the subject the same as I did in the beginning.  There are those out there, on the other hand, that have not been able to change and adapt along the way.  Obviously their experience with the subject is not the same as mine.

 

For example I approach my work with co-ed church groups far differently than I do with co-ed community based groups, and even differently with single-sex Boy Scouts.  They all have different programs, aims, etc. that dictate an amount of flexibility on my part to adapt to their needs.  If I were to keep on with the co-ed BSA, I have no idea what to expect from the changes necessary, and at my age I have very little interest in finding out.  Sure I can work within the new system, but the question remains, do I want to start all over, or just find some other avenues that I am already comfortable with.  The jury is still out on that.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Stosh

[Col. Flagg]

Weren't you the one arguing for adults to be restricted from leaving a summer camp. I guess one mans patrol method is another mans heavily involved adult troop.

 

Maybe we are a generation of helicopter scout leaders and just don't know it.

 

Barry

 

Barry, one can argue for Scouters to fulfill their duty at camp AND require them to stay the heck out of the boys' hair. That's what good Scouters do. We are invisible...until we are needed, then we are right there.

[Stosh]

The name of the game is to support the leadership of the boys, not take over.  A constant presence always leaves the back door open to the fledgling new leader, knowing that any time he can bail onto the expertise of the adults rather than take the next step of leadership one his own.  Every time a boy pushes his envelop, he grows stronger in his leadership portfolio.  Every time he bails, he retards his progress.  Worse yet having an adult step in and push him aside to "make it work", thereby robbing the boy of his opportunity.

[Eagledad]

Barry, one can argue for Scouters to fulfill their duty at camp AND require them to stay the heck out of the boys' hair. That's what good Scouters do. We are invisible...until we are needed, then we are right there.

Agreed, and I'm quite sure your troop is good at not being adult run. But my point is that we each have our personal perception of what is boy run and what is adult run. Except for adults at camp, you and I are on the same page of scouting.

 

As for the discussion of adults reliving their youth, most of those adults in my experience are adults who weren't scouts. Women as much as men. But, lets not confuse them with the adults who just haven't been weaned away from their natural knee-jerk parent reactions. Even the best of us need some practice to turn off the parent side of us when we are doing the scouting stuff.

 

Barry

[NJCubScouter]

If I were to keep on with the co-ed BSA, I have no idea what to expect from the changes necessary, and at my age I have very little interest in finding out.  Sure I can work within the new system, but the question remains, do I want to start all over, or just find some other avenues that I am already comfortable with.  The jury is still out on that.

 

That's perfectly reasonable.  This whole thing is kind of a leap into the unknown.  The reason I reacted to your "old timers" post was that it painted with a broad brush.  Whether to take the leap into the unknown with the BSA, or not, is an individual decision. 

[David CO]

So where are we?

 

Poll units. Each unit gets one vote as determined by majority of scouts voting in unit.

 

Who constructs poll?

 

OA conducts voting and?

 

Then what?

 

Why should OA conduct the voting? 

[David CO]

How about having a group of COR's in each region oversee the polling. We could call it the Chartered Organization Representatives Regional Unit Polling Team. Now, if only I could think of an acronym.

Edited November 8, 2017 by David CO

[Stosh]

Why should OA conduct the voting? 

 

One does not "vote" on a poll, they give an opinion.  One votes on a ballot.  A poll only gives an opinion for others to consider, a ballot gives a choice which mandates an outcome.  Too often we confuse this issue thinking that by answering a poll we are giving any weight to the final decision.  It does not.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Stosh

[RememberSchiff]

Why should OA conduct the voting?

 

As I recall that was Backpack's proposal which i was attempting to summarize.

[oldisnewagain1]

"oh brave new world that has such people in it" John the Savage