Fulfilling Merit Badge Requirments

[ItsBrian]

I have a friend who is working on communications and as some of you may know you must “serve as a master of ceremonies for a.COH.â€

 

But, my question is, are you required to serve while you are working on the badge? My friend has done it at least 3 times, but he did not do it while working on the badge.

 

MBC says it’s valid, SM says no.

[RememberSchiff]

It is the MBC call, not the SM's.

Edited November 1, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[JosephMD]

The merit badge counselor signs off on the requirements, not the scoutmaster. 

 

That being said, does the MBC think that he has completed all of requirement 8 as written, because there is a lot more to it than serving as the master of ceremonies for a coh. 

 

 

8. Plan a troop or crew court of honor, campfire program, or an interfaith worship service. Have the patrol leaders' council approve it, then write the script and prepare the program. Serve as master of ceremonies.

 

Did he plan the COH?  did the PLC approve it?  Did he write the script and prepare the program?   And then serve as the MC?

 

Still, the MBC signs off, not the SM, but in this case could the SM be signaling that the requirement isn't actually completed and it wouldn't be trustworthy to accept it as so?  or, the SM just might not know what he is talking about.

[ScoutmasterDanny]

The short answer is that it is at the discretion of the MBC.  SM has no say.

 

Here is an official answer for BSA:

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2013/04/30/ask-expert-mbs/

[ItsBrian]

 

 

 

Did he plan the COH?  did the PLC approve it?  Did he write the script and prepare the program?   And then serve as the MC?

 

Still, the MBC signs off, not the SM, but in this case could the SM be signaling that the requirement isn't actually completed and it wouldn't be trustworthy to accept it as so?  or, the SM just might not know what he is talking about.

Troop has a specific version we use, we only use that one type. There is nothing to plan, but he chose the date. Our COH's are simple beside the "big" one we have combined with a christmas party.

[qwazse]

Troop has a specific version we use, we only use that one type. There is nothing to plan, but he chose the date. Our COH's are simple beside the "big" one we have combined with a christmas party.

If I were the MBC, I'd ask him if he thought what he did was in the spirit of the requirement, which in full reads: Plan a troop or crew court of honor, campfire program, or an interfaith worship service. Have the patrol leaders' council approve it, then write the script and prepare the program. Serve as master of ceremonies. Needless to say, the Merit Badge Pamphlet gives further detail.

 

Our CoH's were often a little spartan because our boys preferred to MC campfires. Then, a boy wanted use an upcoming CoH to complete the requirement, so he worked on a script. It was rough, but we were quite pleased to "break the mold" a little. That boy is now SPL and put some effort with the PLC in working out a script for this last CoH. Things went a little smoother, and the adults aren't doing nearly as much talking! Baby steps.

 

Anyway, that should give an idea of how a requirement could be used to help move a unit beyond "boilerplate."

[ItsBrian]

Thanks all,

 

I was just curious, they decided to schedule a last minute COH (he ages out in December)..

[HelpfulTracks]

Troop has a specific version we use, we only use that one type. There is nothing to plan, but he chose the date. Our COH's are simple beside the "big" one we have combined with a christmas party.

 

Why did the PLC choose to have this specific CoH script? Perhaps they would be willing to approve him creating a new script and using that one. Have him write it up and see if the PLC will approve it.

[fred johnson]

Great answers above.  Consistent with above is the answer in BSA Guide To Advancement answer 2017, section 7.0.0.2 About the Application for Merit Badge (“Blue Cardâ€), page 43, 2nd paragraph.  

 

"... Even though Scouts may benefit from reviewing requirements with a counselor before pursuing them, a boy may begin working on a merit badge at any time after he is registered. It is the counselor’s decision whether to accept work or activities completed prior to the issuing of the signed blue card. Common sense should prevail, however. For example, nights already camped as a Boy Scout, or coins or stamps already collected, would count toward their respective badges."

 

"Registered" means registering as a Boy Scout.  That is repeated and clarified elsewhere. 

 

I like referring to the camping MB that requires 20 nights.  It is not reasonable to expect the scout to contact the MB counselor in year 5 of his scout journey and then expect another new set of 20 nights.

 

But on the other hand for communications, I could see a counselor trying to teach / communicate skills that the scout might not have.  If the scout is not at that capability level yet when he MC'ed the COH, the counselor could ask for a more current COH.  Example, if the scout is the MC of a COH at 10.5 years old and the troop is brand new.  Perhaps, the scout might not have had the experience or capability at that age to be an "MC".  Instead, he was the body in front of people.

 

Essentially ... "up to the counselor".

[qwazse]

Thanks all,

 

I was just curious, they decided to schedule a last minute COH (he ages out in December)..

As good a plan as any.

 

But, also think about that "How to Earn and MB" skit (which, I sure hope if anyone out there does it, they will make a better title and post the script). If your guy puts that together for your troop, it will meet a specific need. If I were his MBC, I'd consider that in the spirit of the requirement. But, even a letter-of-the-law guy would give props to the scout if he incorporated that into the "hurry-up" CoH.

 

Bottom line: the point of some of these requirements is to add vigor to the troop while helping a boy stretch in a new direction. I'm not a fan of the dual-purpose wording that creeps in to these badges, but since it's there, let's make the best of it.

[Back Pack]

The short answer is that it is at the discretion of the MBC.  SM has no say.

 

Here is an official answer for BSA:

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2013/04/30/ask-expert-mbs/

But the SM can challenge the mbc crediting of the requirement if there’s no way the scout could have done all of the requirements. Like pointed out above it’s not jus emceeing it’s planning and a bunch more so the mbc can’t give credit for the full requirement, only partially unless all the rest was done too. I think the advancement guide says how an SM can challenges an mbc. Our sm has to do that one.

[fred johnson]

But the SM can challenge the mbc crediting of the requirement if there’s no way the scout could have done all of the requirements. Like pointed out above it’s not jus emceeing it’s planning and a bunch more so the mbc can’t give credit for the full requirement, only partially unless all the rest was done too. I think the advancement guide says how an SM can challenges an mbc. Our sm has to do that one.

 

That's overstepping that BSA GTA intention for a "challenge".  The intention was something blatant such as a blue card coming back from camp but the scout never attended the sessions. Or camping MB coming back, but the scout has only camped 12 nights. 

 

"Planning" a COH is a subjective decision.  It does not say planning all of the COH.  Or write and publish the COH program.  It is really up to the MBC to interpret the "planning".  

Edited November 2, 2017 by fred johnson

[Col. Flagg]

That's overstepping that BSA GTA intention for a "challenge".  The intention was something blatant such as a blue card coming back from camp but the scout never attended the sessions. Or camping MB coming back, but the scout has only camped 12 nights. 

 

That was one example, Fred. The full text is:

 

"From time to time, it may be discovered that merit badges could not actually have been earned. For example, a Scout who returns from summer camp or a merit badge fair with signed blue cards for an extraordinary number of badges could raise concerns. If, after consulting with those involved in the merit badge program—such as an event coordinator, the camp director, or a merit badge counselor—it becomes plainly evident that a youth could not have actually and personally fulfilled requirements as written, then the limited recourse outlined below is available. It may result in a decision that some or all of the requirements for a badge could not have been fulfilled, and thus, that the badge was not actually earned." -- GTA Section 7.0.4.7

 

 

So if the SM (unit leader) finds out this kid didn't plan and get approved the COH, he would discern that from the conversation he has with the scout and observers (parent and an ASM). Then the GTA allows...

 

"In most cases, with a fair and friendly approach, a young man who did not complete the requirements will admit it. Short of this, however, if it remains clear under the circumstances that some or all of the requirements could not have been met, then the merit badge is not reported or awarded, and does not count toward advancement. The unit leader then offers the name of at least one other merit badge counselor through whom any incomplete requirements may be finished. Note that in this case a merit badge is not “taken away†because, although signed off, it was never actually earned."

 

[ValleyBoy]

I have a friend who is working on communications and as some of you may know you must “serve as a master of ceremonies for a.COH.â€

 

But, my question is, are you required to serve while you are working on the badge? My friend has done it at least 3 times, but he did not do it while working on the badge.

 

MBC says it’s valid, SM says no.

 

Troop has a specific version we use, we only use that one type. There is nothing to plan, but he chose the date. Our COH's are simple beside the "big" one we have combined with a christmas party.

No this requirement does not have to be approved before it is done.  The only requirements for the Communications merit badge that have to be approved by your merit badge councilor are

 

#5  Attend a public meeting (city council, school board, debate) approved by your counselor where several points of view are given on a single issue. Practice active listening skills and take careful notes of each point of view. Prepare an objective report that includes all points of view that were expressed, and share this with your counselor.

#6  With your counselor's approval, develop a plan to teach a skill or inform someone about something. Prepare teaching aids for your plan. Carry out your plan. With your counselor, determine whether the person has learned what you intended.

#7 b.  Create a web page or blog of special interest to you (for instance, your troop or crew, a hobby, or a sport).. Include at least three articles or entries and one photograph or illustration, and one link to some other Web page or blog that would be helpful to someone who visits the Web page or blog you have created. It is not necessary to post your Web page or blog to the Internet, but if you decide to do so, you must first share it with your parents and counselor and get their permission.

 

Requirement #8 Which is the one that is in question in this thread is as follows:  Plan a troop or crew court of honor, campfire program, or an interfaith worship service. Have the patrol leaders' council approve it, then write the script and prepare the program. Serve as master of ceremonies. 

 

These are the only 3 that have to be approved by the merit badge councilor all other only have to be done after the boy joins the Boy Scouts.

 

From the statement that the troop only uses one version for COH's and there is nothing to plan needs to be changed.  The reason it needs to be changed is so that what ever scout serves as master of ceremonies will have completed the above requirement.  With this change the Scoutmaster could not question that the requirement has been met.  The same change should also be in effect for unit campfire programs and interfaith worship services. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by ValleyBoy

[fred johnson]

So if the SM (unit leader) finds out this kid didn't plan and get approved the COH, ...

 

I'm familiar with the rest of the text.  The issue is the intention of the "challenge" is for more blatant in-your-face issues.  If "challenge" is taken to the point of referring to planning in Req #8, then it can really be applied to any individual requirement.  I'm not sure if even the "discuss" requirements can be safe.  I'd be more comfortable if the SM was challenging and said the scout never stood in front of the troop as a MC for the event.  But to say he did not "plan" is a subjective statement.  PLC approval can be as simple as the scout telling the SPL what he planned to say in the coming COH or the SPL and scout jointly deciding what is to be said.  That has the PLC effectively approve the plan.

 

It guts the MBC as the person who determines of requirements have been met and adds the SM as a 2nd approval.  And the SM has never meant to be an approval in the merit badge program. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by fred johnson