Equal Leaders?

[5thGenTexan]

So, this other guy and I are the Tiger Den Leaders this year.  We have 19 Tigers and that group has been divided into two dens but more than likely the whole group with work together during meeting.  Since there are two dens, we are both designated as Den Leaders.  We turned in adult apps about 5 minutes apart.  We have both taken the same online training.  Last weekend the whole pack went on a campout that I wasn't able to attend due to prior plans made long before I got the pack calendar at the end of September.  Today I get an email that he wont be able to be at the next den meeting and proceeds to instruct in detail how I should conduct the meeting. Point by point for each requirement, telling me where to find things in the scout hut, to whom I can pose any questions.   As far as I can tell he has about a day and half more experience than I do. 

 

Sorry, just needed to vent some place.

 

[NJCubScouter]

Maybe he is just trying to be helpful?

[ScoutmasterDanny]

I struggled with this exact scenario when I was a Den Leader.  It frustrated me for years.  I feel your pain.

 

That being said, do what you want.  Let him do what he wants.  There is plenty of work to go around.  Just try to frame it in your mind that he is "being helpful".  In reality, at some point one or both of you will get less enthusiastic and appreciate the other one taking the load.

 

It does get worse.  Wait till you send out detailed instructions and he sends out conflicting instructions.  Then the parents get mad at both of you.

 

With 19 Tigers, you may want to consider not "jointly" running the Dens.  You both should have plenty of adults to do your own thing successfully.

[NJCubScouter]

With 19 Tigers, you may want to consider not "jointly" running the Dens.  You both should have plenty of adults to do your own thing successfully.

 

I agree with that.  It's almost like you have a small pack, made entirely of Tigers.  (Just writing that makes me want to go running screaming into the night... and it isn't even night-time.)  Last time I was a den leader (which was a long time ago), dens were supposed to be 6-8 kids.  Ten and nine is borderline-manageable, but hopefully there is also an assistant den leader for each den.  Nineteen together, even with two den leaders, is insanity.

[David CO]

Boy, he sure has a lot of nerve for someone who is only a fourth generation Texan.

[qwazse]

Well ...

 

...  As far as I can tell he has about a day and half more experience than I do. 

 

Sorry, just needed to vent some place.

 

 

36 hours in the woods with a dozen tigers?

 

I suspect he got his ear talked off by them, last year's Tiger DLs, this year's parents, and the Cubmaster. He's probably just trying to get you up to speed.

 

Let the guy know you were overwhelmed by his E-mail. (One reason why I write to this forum is to get it "out of my system" before subjecting my fellow scouters with my drivel! Even so, they still rib me.) And ask if he plans on mapping things out every week.

 

If not, take a breather. If so, let him know you're just not that detail oriented and ask for his patience because you are going to try focus on the boys as individuals more than the detailed plan. It's just your style.

 

Running two dens in parallel may indeed be the winning strategy for you two. However, figuring out what to do together vs. apart will take a lot of finesse. So, you're gonna need to find a balance with the communication. Might as well start out honest and open.

Edited November 1, 2017 by qwazse

[Tampa Turtle]

I had 19 Tigers...don't do 1 big den....

[Eagledad]

With 19 Tigers, you may want to consider not "jointly" running the Dens.  You both should have plenty of adults to do your own thing successfully.

Maybe, maybe not. I had a den of 17 Webelos because I (Cub master at the time) couldn't get enough adults to take some responsibility. I quit the CM gig to takeover the Webelos.

 

One possibility for the OP is pick a designated leader/planner who plans each den meeting and then lets the two assistants run them. While I couldn't find a single adult among the 17 families to lead, I had no trouble finding plenty of assistants to run the meetings from my plans.

 

Also consider what the families are going to do next year when they become Wolves. That is where you should be working toward now.

 

Barry

Edited November 1, 2017 by Eagledad

[fred johnson]

... Just try to frame it in your mind that he is "being helpful".  ...

 

I fully agree.  Find a way to use it to make your life easier.  

 

My experience in scouts and in life is that no one is perfect.  Every person will start annoying another person at some point.  

 

As for scouts, I've only survived because I've learned to let a lot bounce off me.  Scouting collects more than it's share of quirky people ... or highly inspired people ... or motivated people ... or in-your-face people ... or people that feel their way is their way is the only way.

 

If you can find a way to let it bounce off you, you will be way way better off.  

Edited November 1, 2017 by fred johnson

[SSScout]

"All feed back is a gift".   

Full communication is a gift.

His concern for your success is a gift.

His concern that you be aware of how he would do it is a gift.

Coffee is a gift, but that's another thread....

Now, how  concerned are YOU about HIS success?   Would you have said, "hey, you're on your own, buddy,  the Scout hut is over there...."  or would you discuss how you might tackle the various activities/desires/requirements and then be ready to divvy up the Den(s).

Yeah, his way might not be your way, but if you are both desirous of giving your boys  (YOUR boys, do you like the ring of that?)  the Scout Experience, I know both of you will be there for them.  

"Yeah, Frank, um-mm, nice ideas....    I think I'll try this,,, and This... but I'd like to try it this way over here. waddya think?"

Don't take offense , take his ideas, add yours and have fun !  

[ItsBrian]

Currently in a Vocational HS for nursing. We have just finished our communication unit

 

Every conversation or message, whatever you want to call it has a:

 

-Sender

-Message

-Receiver

-Feedback

 

In your case,

 

-Sender (The other DL)

-Message (A “annoying†email telling you how to do your position)

-Receiver (you)

-FEEDBACK (The most important in my opinion , you need to give FEEDBACK on how you feel.)

 

You will be skipping a piece of the “cycle†by ranting on here and not saying how you feel in a polite way.

Edited November 2, 2017 by ItsBrian

[TAHAWK]

You have two Den Leaders and more than enough Tigers for two dens.  Whazzup?

[HelpfulTracks]

"All feed back is a gift".   

Full communication is a gift.

His concern for your success is a gift.

His concern that you be aware of how he would do it is a gift.

Coffee is a gift, but that's another thread....

Now, how  concerned are YOU about HIS success?   Would you have said, "hey, you're on your own, buddy,  the Scout hut is over there...."  or would you discuss how you might tackle the various activities/desires/requirements and then be ready to divvy up the Den(s).

Yeah, his way might not be your way, but if you are both desirous of giving your boys  (YOUR boys, do you like the ring of that?)  the Scout Experience, I know both of you will be there for them.  

"Yeah, Frank, um-mm, nice ideas....    I think I'll try this,,, and This... but I'd like to try it this way over here. waddya think?"

Don't take offense , take his ideas, add yours and have fun !  

 

I would add my 2 cents, but SSSCout just gave you a nickles worth. Great advice!

[5thGenTexan]

First, some observation about "19 Tigers".  It looks like there are 13 that have made advancement so far.  There is one family decided not to continue and there are 5 others that no one has heard from or seen.  I had 8 in my last Deem meeting, so I figure we are going be lucky if we can consistently have half remotely active.  I was rather impressed I kept their attention and they remained engaged for almost the whole hour meeting.  CM suggested I try to condense some things because I wont always get that lucky.

 

I will update again after our next meeting this coming Sunday.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions. 

[scoutldr]

Ok, I'll state the obvious:  Seems to me his email should have been directed to his Assistant Den Leader(s).  YOu have your own den to run.  As stated above, 19 scouts is THREE dens.  Each one should have a DL and ADL.  It always amazes me when Packs/Troops try to operate at odds with BSA guidelines then wonder why it's not working.  It's not like we are inventing the wheel for the first time.