Need help getting 15 yr old to complete 2nd Class rank swim requirement

[mi_scoutmom]

We have a boy who is not disabled and can swim he just will not jump in over his head and do the swim test. Because of this, he is at Tenderfoot rank for about 2 yrs. We have tried a number of times to help him get over this fear but its not working.  Can he use a life jacket when he jumps in and/or face mask that covers his eyes and nose?  Like I said he CAN swim its just the jumping in that is the problem. 

 

CAN he use the life jacket?

[scoutldr]

Short answer, no.  The point of the requirement is to train them to be safe if they should fall in.  I had a boy with the same issue...he eventually made it, and proceeded to Eagle using the alternate merit badges.

[qwazse]

No he may not.

Welcome to the forums. Now, brace yourself.

FIRST CLASS FIRST YEAR IS A LIE.

 

Taking years to advance not a problem.

Son #2 took four years for no good reason. He eventually earned Eagle.

His buddy took as long because the lake freaked him out, and he refused to let me test him in a swimming pool. He enjoyed the program until he was 17. He's an awesome young man.

Other boys have had different reasons.

The best scout I ever knew aged out at 2nd class. What made him the best? He invited me to join his troop.

 

Fight with every fiber in your body the notion that he hast to advance now.

There are 130 other things (MBs) he could do until he's ready.

Edited October 29, 2017 by qwazse

[TAHAWK]

I hope this does not come across as "condescending," but the requirement is - and is only:

 

"Demonstrate your ability to pass the BSA beginner test: Jump feetfirst into water over your head in depth, level off and swim 25 feet on the surface, stop, turn sharply, resume swimming, then return to your starting place."

 

Seems to me that a PDA somewhat defeats the purpose of showing that you can swim and do a rest stroke when necessary.  It would be the PDA keeping you afloat.

 

BSA blog (2014): "Bryan,

I have a question on the swimming requirement for First Class. I have at least three boys who are unable to complete the BSA swimmer test as one of the First Class requirements. They have a fear of jumping into the water over their heads. It is not just at the lake during summer camp but also at a swimming pool. I’ve reviewed the Guide to Advancement but don’t really see anything about this. Since they really don’t have a disability, there are no alternate requirements that fit the situation. Are they doomed to remain a Second Class Scout?

. . .

[response, in part]

In his March-April 2011 Scouting magazine cover story, “Dreading Water,†author Jeff Csatari explores this very topic. If you’re having similar issues in your troop, give it a read. He also discusses the summer camp swim check, another source of anxiety for Scouts that you may be dealing with in a few months."

 

"Dreading Water"

"If summer camp swim checks twist your Scouts' stomachs into square knots, here's how to make the checks less stressful.

By Jeff Csatari
Photograph by Tom Hussey Photography

• 7 Ways to Make Swim Checks Successful

 

Not all Scouts immediately take to the water. But when they show up for summer camp, they all have to participate in the BSA’s swim check. Many take it in stride. Others do not.

 

Michelle Matowski remembers an especially difficult experience for one Scout who had a single goal for the summer: earn an aquatics merit badge. But the Scout’s plans were dashed when he didn’t receive a “swimmer†tag at the swim check on the first day of camp.

 

'When he took off his goggles,†recalls Matowski, a committee member who was attending Scout camp with Troop 1104 of Dearborn, Mich., “I could see that he was sobbing. I felt so bad for this Scout. His world just came crashing down. It was like someone took away his birthday party.'

 

The first day of camp can be an overwhelming experience for boys for many reasons: being away from home, uncertainty about what they will experience, or thoughts of how they will measure up to their buddies. Not passing the swim check can be difficult, causing a disappointing or even embarrassing start to Scout camp week.

You don’t have to let that happen. Unit leaders can help their boys both before and during camp to have a positive experience by preparing them ahead of time—in part by recognizing that swim checks can produce anxiety, especially for those who fear swimming in a lake or river where they can’t see the bottom.

 

Still, the swim check is a vital demonstration of a boy’s ability to take care of himself in the water. And it’s important to remember that a member of the camp’s aquatic staff will work one-on-one with any Scout and recheck the boy during the week if he wants to advance from nonswimmer to beginner to swimmer.

 

How can you reduce your Scouts’ anxiety about the swim-check process? Follow this advice from adult leaders, child psychologists, parent volunteers, and experienced swim instructors."

 

The article goes on to suggest practical ways to reduce the stress of swim tests, and while the focus is on Summer Camp, many of the suggestions have a broader application.

 

SOURCE: https://scoutingmagazine.org/issues/1103/a-dreading.html

[HashTagScouts]

Remember, "making Eagles" is not the aim or goal of the program.  If the scout is having fun and enjoying the other aspects of the program he is involved with, then let him be.  If he understands that to go to the next step of rank advancement, or eventually be eligible for things like Order of the Arrow, that he needs to complete the requirement he will need to overcome the fear once (emphasis on that point- he only really needs to jump in one time and then never again as he can complete hiking or cycling and emergency preparedness MBs to get to Eagle) then your job is done.  Hounding him or making him feel he is less of a Scout because the other guys have done it is not good either.

 

It isn't all that abnormal for there to be kids who have the same fear.  For some, completing the requirement in a pool is an option they are more comfortable with if their fear is they can't see the bottom of the pond/lake.  You can't, however, change the requirement.

Edited October 29, 2017 by HashTagScouts

[TAHAWK]

And BSA may agree:

 

"The test administrator must objectively evaluate the individual performance of the test, and in so doing should keep in mind the purpose of each test element.

 

1. Jump feet first into water over the head in depth, level off, and begin swimming..." The swimmer must be able to make an abrupt entry into deep water and begin swimming without any aids. Walking in from shallow water, easing in from the edge or down a ladder, pushing off from side or bottom, or gaining forward momentum by diving do not satisfy this requirement."

 

BSA, Safe Swim Defense (2017)

 

Although this language appears regarding the Swimmer Test, the jumping in requirement is the same for Beginner.  Id. "The entry and turn serve the same purpose as in the swimmer test."

 

Are the "goggles" mentioned in the 2011 BSA article an "aid"?  Is a face mask?  We ought to easily get an official answer.  That is unlikely.

[David CO]

Remember, "making Eagles" is not the aim or goal of the program.  If the scout is having fun and enjoying the other aspects of the program he is involved with, then let him be.  If he understands that to go to the next step of rank advancement, or eventually be eligible for things like Order of the Arrow, that he needs to complete the requirement he will need to overcome the fear once (emphasis on that point- he only really needs to jump in one time and then never again as he can complete hiking or cycling and emergency preparedness MBs to get to Eagle) then your job is done.  Hounding him or making him feel he is less of a Scout because the other guys have done it is not good either.

 

It isn't all that abnormal for there to be kids who have the same fear.  For some, completing the requirement in a pool is an option they are more comfortable with if their fear is they can't see the bottom of the pond/lake.  You can't, however, change the requirement.

 

I agree that advancement is not the aim or goal of the program. I disagree with everything else.

 

I think every child should learn how to swim well enough to save their lives in an emergency situation. If necessary, they should be ordered to learn it.  A reluctant swimmer should be given no choice in this matter.

 

Of course, a scout leader can't force a scout to do anything. This is the parents' responsibility. As a scout leader and swimming instructor, I would sit down with the parents and advise them to order their son to do it.

 

If the scout leaders are too squeamish to teach a reluctant swimmer to swim, I would suggest that the parents enroll their son in a swimming class somewhere else. A good swimming instructor will get the job done.

Edited October 29, 2017 by David CO

[ItsBrian]

Personally not a great swimmer myself, but I managed to get over it by repeating to myself “It’s a one time thing, I won’t need to do it again†I love swimming, just not for distance. I am almost Eagle now, and have completed all the alternative requirements instead (E. prep, and soon to do cycling)

[qwazse]

... every child should learn how to swim well enough to save their lives in an emergency situation. If necessary, they should be ordered to learn it.  A reluctant swimmer should be given no choice in this matter....

If the scout leaders are too squeamish to teach a reluctant swimmer to swim, I would suggest that the parents enroll their son in a swimming class somewhere else. A good swimming instructor will get the job done.

With grandparents' living within yards of a Great Lake, this was an imperative for my kids. It was tragic in my mind seeing my mother-in-law with such a fear of the swimming because she never needed to conquer it as a child. (On the other hand, they were very strict with the grandchildren about PFDs and open water, which I took great comfort in. The kids even learned how to fish with life jackets on!)

 

A good swimming program allows for the possibility that some skills(like jumping in) might have to wait a year.

 

Personally not a great swimmer myself, but I managed to get over it by repeating to myself “It’s a one time thing, I won’t need to do it again†I love swimming, just not for distance. I am almost Eagle now, and have completed all the alternative requirements instead (E. prep, and soon to do cycling)

I often have misgivings about boys not taking the swimming/lifesaving route. If for the only reason that it's the best way to learn how hard it is to do open rescue without support. It also teaches attentiveness -- something that many veterans told me astounded them about their Eagle scout colleagues. I guess E-Prep does this to a degree, but it's not the same.

On the flip side, I was not great with cycling as a kid. So, this could be a bit of country mouse judging the city mouse in ignorance.

 

In any case, I think the summer camp swim test (honestly assessed) gives boys a fair sense of what the next level could be.

[NJCubScouter]

This kind of hits home for me. My son had a lot of trouble with swimming. Somewhere along the line he managed to struggle through the Second Class swimming test, but he was a non-swimmer at his first year of summer camp and he was still a non-swimmer at his second year of summer camp. Along the way there were swimming lessons and lots of encouragement. The third year, he passed the First Class swimming test, I wouldn’t say with flying colors, but he passed. The fourth year, as of the time I dropped him off at camp on Sunday, he had no plans to go for Swimming MB. When I picked him up on Saturday, he had earned Swimming MB. I never really asked him for the details. I suspect that the SM told him he should give it a try, and he did. (As far as I know, nobody ever suggested he go for Lifesaving, and he never did.)

 

There have been a few other kids in the troop along the way who had similar issues, but I believe they all earned Swimming MB eventually, with the exception of the one wheelchair-bound kid, who made Eagle through alternate requirements on all of the “physical†requirements in Scouting. I think the vast majority of non-physically-disabled Scouts with “swimming issues†can pass with the right amount of encouragement, lessons and time.

[NJCubScouter]

Qwasze, I just agreed with you in another thread, so in order to maintain balance in the space-time continuum I have to disagree with you here.

 

Just kidding. Sometimes it seems that way though.

 

The original post did not mention First Class first year, nor did it mention a Scout being told that he HAS to advance. The inference I draw from the OP is that this is a Scout who WANTS to advance, but are unable to advance because of one requirement. So we are discussing how he might achieve that requirement. One way he cannot do it is by wearing a flotation device. Some ways that he can, eventually, have been suggested earlier in this thread.

[CalicoPenn]

I think I can help you with a bit of practical advice.  Two bits of practical advice actually.

 

First:  Don't read more in to the requirement than is already there.  Just about every "problem" with a requirement is caused by people reading more in to the requirements than what is there.

 

Let's take a look at that requirement again:  Jump feet first into water over the head in depth, level off, and begin swimming.   Do you know what it doesn't say?  It doesn't say Jump in to water over your head in depth so that your head is underwater...  It only requires on to jump in to water deeper than they are tall.  Now if we got that out of the way, there is a way for your Scout to jump in to water over his head in depth, level off, and begin swimming without going completely underwater and that leads to the second bit of advice.

 

Second:  Ever hear of a rescue jump?  Or a lifesaving jump?  Or stride jump?  Or whatever it might be called nowadays?  Its actually pretty simple to do - and is taught to lifeguards so that they can jump off docks, piers, etc. while always keeping an eye on the person they need to rescue - can't very well keep an eye on the victim if you end up fully underwater.  

 

This is how it is done - jump in the water with your legs spread front to back (as if you are in the middle of a running stride) and with your arms held out to the sides level with your shoulders.  When you hit the water, you bring your legs back together and your arms to your side.  If it goes right (ie your timing is good and you don't bring your legs together before you hit the water), you will have jumped in to deep water without getting your head wet from anything other than the splash.  You won't be dunking your head under water.

 

You can try practice this skill in shallower water (about 5 feet) to get used to the movements (of course if the Scout is 4'9" and is successfully practicing it in 5' water and is leveling off and swimming, he's pretty much passed the requirement).  It can even be practiced on land.  It might help this Scout if he sees other people doing it and succeeding.

 

Try that instead of getting his parent to "order" him to do it.  The Boy Scouts isn't the military and he'll learn a skill instead of resentment.

[David CO]

No, that technique doesn't meet the requirements. It is not an abrupt entry.

 

The purpose of the training is to prepare the scout to be able to save his life in a situation where he finds himself in an unplanned and abrupt entry into the water. 

 

A scissor kick entry is a very useful thing if you are a skilled swimmer and you need to do a rescue. It is not very useful technique for a novice swimmer who suddenly and unexpectedly falls in the water. Nor is it useful to a novice swimmer, swimming on the surface, who is pulled under water.

 

If a boy would resent adults for making him learn to swim, then he will probably already resent us for making him go to school, go to the doctor, go to the dentist, and a wide variety of other unforgivable offenses. This will be just one more thing for him to add to the list.

Edited October 30, 2017 by David CO

[ScoutmasterDanny]

I would suggest that you encourage the youth (and parent) to start weekly swim lessons and continue them until he can confidently pass the Second and First Class Swim requirements.  Those classes could save his life.

[scoutldr]

In the case of the 16 year old scout I mentioned earlier, seeing that grin on his face and the celebrations of his fellow scouts when he passed that requirement was priceless.  I'm glad we didn't rob him of that accomplishment by allowing him to skate by the requirement. His subsequent earning of the Eagle badge paled in comparison.