What to do

[mashmaster]

Sounds like you had a good talk, MM. Glad to hear he's looking forward to sea base. Something tells me your just talking to him helped a lot.

 

One other really important thing. Does he have friends in scouts? This makes a huge difference as scouts get older. It's the odd kid that ages out without friends near by. The comment about venturing and OA, if he doesn't have friends, is something to think about. I wouldn't suggest that route unless he really has no friends, as making friends at this age is getting harder and harder.

 

My son didn't understand the loud kids either. I'm just guessing, but your son, if he's anything like mine, is not the natural leader. He likely has a good heart and will be great with a group that wants to be a team. However, the average group of new scouts doesn't have a clue as to what this means and asking a 13 year old to develop that really is asking a lot. I now appreciate the comments from others around here about how the troop guides should be the oldest and best leaders. They have a tough job. They can't just be web 3 leaders, they need to develop a team mentality in a bunch of boys that have only ever had to think about themselves.

Yeah that descibes him well.  He doesn't make friends easily and has acquaintances but no friends in scouts.

[ItsBrian]

Well, we talked again this morning and he really likes the actitivity in scouting.  He is psyched about Seabase and summer camp, even for Philmont if we get a spot.  He just can't handle the 1st year scouts and the disrespect.  I spoke to the ASM in charge of that patrol and he is going to chat with him and watch the patrol to see if he has any good advice(he has been in scouting 54 years).  If we can't get the issues moving in the right direction, he will step down as PL and just take some non-PLC time.  He already has plenty for his Star Rank but doesn't feel that he deserves it yet so he doesn't want to have his requirements signed off.  

 

Part of the problem is that my son is a rule follower, always has been.  He doesn't understand people that aren't.  I will note that he is only 13 and he will never be the star athlete but he enjoys swimming, band, and school.

Does your patrols have patrol meetings? We did one this weekend, just to let them “bond.â€, said to make a menu for a camping trip and they did. Simple as that. They behaved way above my expectations and acted mature.

[Scoutmaster Teddy]

mashmaster - I feel your pain. My son is a scout and a soccer nut. They can play and practice all year. After the high school season is over they join club teams. Even in the snow - Quincy U has an indoor field an hour away. Soccer never ends. 

 

I *was* his Scoutmaster. Was? Yes. Our Troop meets on Tuesdays which is bad for high school athletes. Wednesdays work better for athletes around here. Out of 19 scouts, he is the only athlete. I transferred him to a neighboring Troop who meets on Wednesdays, the only night athletes don't practice. I know the scoutmaster so it was okay. NOT okay with my CC though... we'll see about that. My troop is sponsored by a Methodist Church - my son went to a Catholic Troop.

 

He too was discouraged by obnoxious behavior. My troop gets all of the kids from broken homes and those who lack attention at home. The Catholic Troop has it far easier.

 

A Scoutmaster with a son in a different troop. It may become the end of my tenure, but it's about him - not me.

 

Scoutmaster Teddy

 

 

[Scoutmaster Teddy]

Deleted double post.

 

Scoutmaster Teddy

Edited October 27, 2017 by deanofmac

[Stosh]

@mashmaster

 

There is one thing that I always teach my aspiring young leaders when it comes to discipline.  "You can't change them, but you can change you."

 

As a SM, CA or Youth Group leader, etc one always will need to face disciplinary issues at one time or another.  How well one handles that varies from one person to the next.  Young people don't always fare very well at first, but once they figure it out, it generally runs pretty smoothly.

 

I have had, over the years, many different kids under my care and no two are alike.

 

I had, for example, one boy in my church Sunday School class that came up with the reputation as "a handful" from all the teachers that had had him in class.  I got the dire warning that it was now "MY TURN" to have him.

 

Well, I walked into class and it was rather rowdy the first day.  I spoke gently and calmly that everyone needed to find a place to sit around the table.  Yep, no one wanted to sit next to the "troublemaker", so I did.  No big scene, just sat down and started the lesson.  Every time he started to disrupt, I just reached over and touched his arm and he quieted down and I never broke stride in what I was doing.  This continued throughout the hour. 

 

After class was over, the boy hung around as if he wanted to talk to me and I asked him if I could help him with something.  He said, I was going to be a good teacher and he was going to be a good student for me.  He gave me no problems in class ever.

 

I couldn't change him, but I could change me.  Yes, I catered my teaching accordingly to accommodate his behavior.  I never acknowledged his disrespectful behavior and he got no negative reinforcement for it either. 

 

What leadership entails many times is knowing what one's boys need at any particular moment.  How one takes care of their boys is what sets apart task managers and great leaders. 

 

Teaching this to others has kept the discipline problems in my youth groups to a minimum.  It's a powerful tool, if one knows how to use it properly.

[mashmaster]

Well, camped this weekend and he was either laughing or miserable.  Claims it was a waste of his time but say him happy when he allowed himself to be happy.  Just don't know what to do.

[David CO]

Well, camped this weekend and he was either laughing or miserable.  Claims it was a waste of his time but say him happy when he allowed himself to be happy.  Just don't know what to do.

 

It speaks very highly for your son that he is able to be pleasant even when he is not having a good time. A scout is cheerful.

 

They say that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. People give in to the kids who act out. It is often the cheerful, respectful, well-behaved boys who are forced to stick it out in an activity they don't enjoy.

[Stosh]

It sounds as if someone needs to sit down and have a heart-to-heart talk about what it's going to take to make it happen or not.  If Sonny is not interested in scouts, what is he interested in?  If he's unsure about Scouts, what's it going to take to tip the scales one way or the other.  If it's okay but boring, what are the ideas necessary to make it more exciting then. 

 

One needs to articulate the problem so one know what it is that one is dealing with.  When Sonny says Scouts is boring, that really doesn't identify what the problem might be.  He's being vague.  So press on: What's boring about it.  Sonny: I dunno.  Yep, that clarifies it totally. 

 

Until one gets a handle on the problem, it can't be solved.

[Back Pack]

Well, camped this weekend and he was either laughing or miserable.  Claims it was a waste of his time but say him happy when he allowed himself to be happy.  Just don't know what to do.

I used to say that to my dad. It was usually because I wanted to be home gaming or with my girl friend. To hear him tell it I would always say things were okay or fine even when I was having a great time. We would tak about it a few times and I don’t recall me ever explaining my feeing fully. What’s he say when you ask him why he was miserable?

[qwazse]

It speaks very highly for your son that he is able to be pleasant even when he is not having a good time. A scout is cheerful.

 

They say that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. People give in to the kids who act out. It is often the cheerful, respectful, well-behaved boys who are forced to stick it out in an activity they don't enjoy.

This is very true. Son #1 would often try to drag me into his slough of despond. He wasn't depressed, he just was taking good times and very good friendships for granted. My conversations with him often involved me reminding him about how one of his friends would have said "Your dad's so cool!"

If he stayed home from a backpacking trip or day hike, I still went.

I would invest time in mapping out personally challenging hikes. One time he said "You'll hike alone!"

I replied "Suit's me fine."

Then, whatever he did with his friends, I would ask: would it have been more fun if you could have made it last all weekend?

He went to college with the skills needed to be cheerful in tough times.

 

Son #2 had to fight hard against negative moods. I congratulated him on every victory. It took him years to talk about every battle that he faced. But for him, scouting was the place where he could safely be a guy hashing out problems with other guys.

His college roommates have been scouts, and it's meant the world to him.

 

All that to say, point out to the boy that he has unique gifts that seem to only rise up when he's with on these camp-outs.

Edited November 6, 2017 by qwazse

[fred johnson]

The sad truth is not every scout will want to stay in until they age out.  It is a magical mix of program, friendship and schedule.  At this point in his life when he's pulled every direction, I'd just try to make his life less stressful and sympathize with the decisions he has to make.  You clearly value scouting.  He may be a perfectly good young man who finds more value elsewhere.  

[mashmaster]

Well dug into it more and found a huge bowl or crap.  The stuff is bad enough that I am holding an emergency meeting this week to address issues with following the Oath, Law, and Code.  There were bad issues e.g: stealing, spitting, name calling, destruction of personal property.......

 

So, I don't blame him, although the boys need to learn to speak up, so we can address it right away.

[Stosh]

It's kinda miraculous to actually identify the problem.  How many boys get the chance to tell the SM what's really going on and have him/her LISTEN.

 

Adults are not there to DO scouting for the boys, they are there to LISTEN so the boys can do the scouting.

[Col. Flagg]

Well dug into it more and found a huge bowl or crap.  The stuff is bad enough that I am holding an emergency meeting this week to address issues with following the Oath, Law, and Code.  There were bad issues e.g: stealing, spitting, name calling, destruction of personal property.......

 

So, I don't blame him, although the boys need to learn to speak up, so we can address it right away.

 

As much as we want kids to speak up, sometimes it is just easier (and safer) to lie low or leave. If there's no mechanism to, for lack of a better term, "blow the whistle" on the guys serving up this large bowl of crap, then boys tend to keep their head down. Or worse, they leave Scouting.

 

I know a local troop that had this issue. The SM instituted a way to have guys let him know when such things were going on. Guys could send an email to a list that went to the SM and the TC Chair (two deep). The report was then investigated and acted on. It really cut down on issues. They also held a troop-wide "re-training" of their leaders disguised as a TLT program that everyone attended. They had a whole section on anti-bullying and living the Oath/Law.

 

Good luck. It's not a easy task but you are doing the right thing...if not for your Scout, someone else's.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[mashmaster]

It's kinda miraculous to actually identify the problem.  How many boys get the chance to tell the SM what's really going on and have him/her LISTEN.

 

Adults are not there to DO scouting for the boys, they are there to LISTEN so the boys can do the scouting.

Once he opened up, another 2 scouts opened up to their parents about other things.  Hopefully, the boys will get something out of the Scoutmaster having a strong message for them about how the partnership works.  If they need help we are there to help them but we need them to ask for help.  And the boys need to hear that we are taking our code of conduct seriously.  I want the PLC to come up ways that they can work with us to make it better, but they need to hear from me that we will not let them make serious violations.