Anyone Do the Philmont PSR-PASS Adult Orientation

[Gear-Report]

17 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Wait a second.  Isn't a liter a unit of volume, rather than weight?  Shouldn't that be Kg if we are being metric here?  I know a liter is about a quart, and I know we didn't measure what we were carrying at Philmont in quarts. 

lol
Packs are typically measured by volume.

 

[Gear-Report]

11 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

An older scout in our troop said on his Philmont trip the previous Scoutmaster had a pack that weighed 70 pounds, fully loaded. I had to wonder if he packed a dutch oven. 

After meeting him, I'm impressed that he made it. 

My goal is to teach less weight = more happiness. 

We saw several of these guys on the trail. In every case they appeared to be 50 or older, overweight, and looked MISERABLE. Their crews were invariably either annoyed / bored as all get out from the slow pace and frequent stops, or had decided to just hike on and let the old guy catch up when he could.

It was sad thinking of how much better the trip would have been for all of them if the adult would have packed smarter so as not to impose on the rest of the crew. 
Also heard about a variety of injuries in other crews from old guys trying to carry too much weight and keep up with 17 year olds. Blown out knees, torqued ankles, various slip and fall injuries. 

I was very aggressive at cutting my pack weight and it made a huge difference in how enjoyable the actual backpacking portion of the trip was. After 5 knee surgeries I just knew that every pound I added to my pack raised the likelihood that I would have a knee blow-out on the trail. 

 

[69RoadRunner]

My work in progress packing list for personal gear. 

https://lighterpack.com/r/1y08fv

 

[Gear-Report]

2 hours ago, 69RoadRunner said:

My work in progress packing list for personal gear. 

https://lighterpack.com/r/1y08fv

 

That is a great list so far.
The things you might consider:

• Coffee cup - I carried a collapsable Sea to Summit cup, but never used it. That was a wasted 2.4 oz. Every night I would finish my gatorade and refill my smellables bottle with water. Then I would put 2 packs of coffee, 2 packs of sugar and a pack of creamer (Philmont gives you all of these in little packets at the Crew Advisor's meeting in base camp before your crew hits the trail) in the bottle, shake it good, then send it up in the bear bag. By morning everything was thoroughly dissolved and ready to drink. I thought I would hate cold coffee, but on the trail there isn't really time to heat up water for hot coffee in the morning anyway. Or time to sip it as it cools. It worked out sooooo much better just drinking it cold. We stopped at a few staffed camps that had Advisor's coffee. They usually had a few spare mugs for advisors to borrow. I thought not having my cup was going to be an issue and didn't plan to take it. Shoved it in my bag at 3:30 am just before leaving for the airport. Should have left it at home.
• Rain Jacket and pants - I carried a poncho both times I went to Philmont and was glad I did both times. In a light rain I could put it on without taking off my pack... try that with a rain jacket and pants.  Poncho is also way less clammy. AND my long poncho (extends in back for use over top of backpack) weighs 7.07 oz. Which is less than your rain jacket. No rain pants needed, saving 4.6 oz. Usually cheaper than a "good" rain jacket as well. I also went with a lighter, better ventilated wide-brimmed hat at 2.8 oz. I wore it almost all the time, as it shaded my face from the sun. I hung a light synthetic bandana down the back to shade my neck and shoulders. Looked a bit silly, but was absolutely fantastic.
• Do you really need a puffy and a fleece, and and wind jacket, and a rain jacket, and a fishing shirt? The RAB jacket has pit zips, right? I'd probably go with the RAB in place of the wind jacket and fleece. Or fleece and wind jacket in place of the RAB. The pit zips might be the deciding factor there. Pit zips are huge on the trail, especially on days where you are changing temperate zones as you ascend/descent, go in and out of tree cover or cloud cover, storms pass by, etc. I would also use the rain jacket or poncho in place of the wind jacket. Most folks seem to forget that they have their rain gear unless it is raining. But you can use it for windbreaker as well. No need to carry duplicate items.
• You can cut your ground cloth weight in half by using PolyCryo (heat shrink window film). It is cheap too.
• I don't know that the pack liner is worthwhile. I found that organizing everything in the main compartment of the backpack in dry sacks worked great on the trail.
• If you need to carry your phone, then you can skip the action camera. If phone isn't needed, then just take the action camera. I think 1 adult needs a phone per crew, but no more. It really sucks when you are hiking and someone talks on the phone for 20 minutes... ask me how I know. lol
• I had an action camera similar to the one you listed and 4 or 5 batteries. Left camp with all batteries and the 10,000 mAh battery pack charged. It was not enough. Solar panel helped, but still ran out about 9 days in. I would seriously consider just taking a 20,000 mAh battery pack and no solar panel.
• You might look at Wrightsocks. They have liner socks built in, which make them easier to deal with. The coolmax model are too thin, but their Escape socks are thick enough to hold up on the trail.
• *edit: You can cut the weight of your headlamp in half as well. 

I go into more detail on some of the stuff above here: http://gear-report.com/best-budget-backpacking-gear-philmont-boy-scouts
Not trying to be lazy... just don't want to retype the WHOLE article. lol

Edited March 1, 2018 by Gear-Report

[69RoadRunner]

That's an interesting coffee option. I do drink iced coffee. 

You're not the first to say the fleece and puffy aren't both needed. It's something to consider. 

I thought Philmont didn't allow ponchos? 

I appreciate the advice. I'm sure our shakedown outings will modify this further. 

[Gear-Report]

13 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

I thought Philmont didn't allow ponchos? 

That is what I thought. I actually had a frogg togs top and bottom, but found out a few days before we left that they just discourage ponchos... not ban them.
I have yet to have anyone tell me WHY they don't like them. Clearly, I've used them twice and had a good enough experience that i would do it again.

[69RoadRunner]

Ponchos are imperfect, just like all rain gear. Your arms get wet, they tend to get caught on branches and don't always do well in wind. 

The plus is that they're light and breath better. 

I'm likely to ditch liners and just go with Injini socks. I bought a pair to try. 

I've only used the Fitfort camera once while snorkeling on the Monsters of Rock cruise a couple of weeks ago. Not sure what the battery life will be like. It's hard to simulate 11 days of activities. That's a work in progress. 

[69RoadRunner]

2 hours ago, Gear-Report said:

•  

I go into more detail on some of the stuff above here: http://gear-report.com/best-budget-backpacking-gear-philmont-boy-scouts
Not trying to be lazy... just don't want to retype the WHOLE article. lol

Great info that I'll share with our troop! 

[Gear-Report]

7 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

Great info that I'll share with our troop! 

Fantastic!
Please share any feedback from your shakedown hikes and trek (jeff@gear-report.com). I'll update the page as new info comes in.
In fact, I spent a fair amount of time updating it this evening.
Now, to finish editing my pre-trek (shot in base camp) and post-trek (shot a couple of days after we returned from the trek) gear review videos...
 

[desertrat77]

I always enjoy gear discussions (no sarcasm), truly. 

However, I'm still wrapping my brain around the Philmont gear list as I prep for a trek this summer.  And the rationale behind it all.   Sometimes this ranges from "darn good idea" to a dire "you must carry X or you will die." Good intentions, no doubt, but I still return mentally to my trek in '77.

- Backpack cover:  never used one as a scout.  Everything in the pack was in ziplocks or a trashbag.  Pack got wet--didn't effect me at all.

- Poncho:  carried a heavy green poncho from Yellow Front, solid rubber.  Worked okay.  If I got wet, I eventually dried.

- Microfibers/fleece/stocking cap/etc:  if memory serves, my clothing list comprised 2 cotton tshirts, 1 official scout shirt, 1 sweat shirt, 1 pair blue jeans.  Sure, I was uncomfortable/wet/cold at times but I made it.

- Two 1-quart GI canteens.

- Heavy sleeping bag, six lbs at least.

- Boots:  official GI issue.  At $17 dollars for a new pair, they worked quite well.

Don't get me wrong.  I'm enjoying many of the new innovations.  But much of the old stuff will still work.

 

 

[Gear-Report]

For me it isn't a question of "will it work". More like, what will work best. ie. What will reduced discomfort and increase enjoyment the most.
I'm sure you could take all the stuff you listed. I wouldn't even begin to consider it, but you are the one that will have to carry and use it all. Do what makes you happy.

My list of recommendations is here:
http://gear-report.com/best-budget-backpacking-gear-philmont-boy-scouts
Happy to answer any questions or explain my rationale, if it would be helpful for you.

And I just posted an alternate cooking method for Philmont today:
http://gear-report.com/best-alternative-philmont-cooking-method-backpacking-boy-scouts

[desertrat77]

9 minutes ago, Gear-Report said:

For me it isn't a question of "will it work". More like, what will work best. ie. What will reduced discomfort and increase enjoyment the most.
I'm sure you could take all the stuff you listed. I wouldn't even begin to consider it, but you are the one that will have to carry and use it all. Do what makes you happy.

My list of recommendations is here:
http://gear-report.com/best-budget-backpacking-gear-philmont-boy-scouts
Happy to answer any questions or explain my rationale, if it would be helpful for you.

And I just posted an alternate cooking method for Philmont today:
http://gear-report.com/best-alternative-philmont-cooking-method-backpacking-boy-scouts

GR, I'm reading your gear link as we speak, and learning from/enjoying it.

Perhaps I should clarify.  My comments were for the gear discussion in general and the official Philmont gear list specifically.  And I'm not advocating taking blue jeans on the trail, for example.  I just find interesting how past practices and procedures are viewed today.

Edited March 12, 2018 by desertrat77

[69RoadRunner]

Yeah, if you're going to be backpacking in the mountains for 11 days, better choices will make it more enjoyable.  It is supposed to be a challenge but also something to enjoy, not endure.

Sure, you can make it with heavy boots, but you'll feel a lot better with your legs lifting much lighter trail runner each step.

Trash compactor bags inside the pack will actually be waterproof (and cheap!) whereas a pack cover is not waterproof as it doesn't cover the whole pack.

Might as well make the better choices.

[desertrat77]

21 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

Yeah, if you're going to be backpacking in the mountains for 11 days, better choices will make it more enjoyable.  It is supposed to be a challenge but also something to enjoy, not endure.

Sure, you can make it with heavy boots, but you'll feel a lot better with your legs lifting much lighter trail runner each step.

Trash compactor bags inside the pack will actually be waterproof (and cheap!) whereas a pack cover is not waterproof as it doesn't cover the whole pack.

Might as well make the better choices.

Agreed.  Let me amend my sentence:  " But much of the old stuff will still work--if need be."  Old stuff, be it procedure or gear.  Or people

- Example:  trek poles.  I've had several people tell me with a straight faced that I must use trek poles.  Yes, the science is in their favor.  And the personal testimony is impeccable.

But "must?" 

I'm all for better choices.  But I still can't resist thinking about the old time scouts that went to Philmont before us--with Yucca packs (on homemade wooden frames), canvas Explorer tents, etc.  My stuff in '77 was positively modern by comparison. 

 

Edited March 12, 2018 by desertrat77