Scouts Retaining Information

[ItsBrian]

Asked a Scout today, “What is the abilities of pikachu and all of its forms�

 

Listed every single one.

 

But, asked, “How do you tie two half hitches�

 

Not a clue. Has been taught many many times, and has done it many times.

 

The newer scouts (freshman in highschool and below) are just not retaining anything and using their head for useless facts...

[qwazse]

Well, you most not have taught them using the EDGE method.

[MattR]

Maybe one man's useless facts are another man's great treasure.

 

How about having each patrol build a giant contraption from poles, pulleys, ropes, levers, and wheels, that uses a lot of double half hitches. Then they'll have their own need that's beyond just making Brian happy.

[CalicoPenn]

 

But, asked, “How do you tie two half hitches�

 

Not a clue. Has been taught many many times, and has done it many times.

 

 

 

 

Are you sure he doesn't have a clue how to tie a two half hitches?  I know adults who tie clove hitches all day that don't remember the name of the knot.  I know Scouts that shrug when you ask them to tie a bowline but know immediately what knot to tie if asked if they can tie the rabbit knot.

 

People tend to remember the things they're interested in or that they're exposed to a lot.  They also often file away things in their brains under their own labels.  What is the context of this Scout having tied two half hitches many times?  Is it in the context of learning how to tie the knot, or is it in the context of using it every time you camp when setting up tents?  Maybe he remembers it as some other name - like tent peg knot.   Or maybe he just finds knots boring and hasn't seen good examples of their importance. 

[David CO]

Asked a Scout today, “What is the abilities of pikachu and all of its forms�

 

Listed every single one.

 

But, asked, “How do you tie two half hitches�

 

Not a clue. Has been taught many many times, and has done it many times.

 

The newer scouts (freshman in highschool and below) are just not retaining anything and using their head for useless facts...

 

I'm a middle school teacher. Welcome to my world.

[ItsBrian]

Well, you most not have taught them using the EDGE method.

  

Been using it since Troop was formed.

[

Maybe one man's useless facts are another man's great treasure.

 

How about having each patrol build a giant contraption from poles, pulleys, ropes, levers, and wheels, that uses a lot of double half hitches. Then they'll have their own need that's beyond just making Brian happy.

 

 

I am not saying that they are stupid and can’t learn it, more like they retain the information that they want, which is usually useless, but can help you extremely.

 

 

 

Are you sure he doesn't have a clue how to tie a two half hitches?  I know adults who tie clove hitches all day that don't remember the name of the knot.  I know Scouts that shrug when you ask them to tie a bowline but know immediately what knot to tie if asked if they can tie the rabbit knot.

 

People tend to remember the things they're interested in or that they're exposed to a lot.  They also often file away things in their brains under their own labels.  What is the context of this Scout having tied two half hitches many times?  Is it in the context of learning how to tie the knot, or is it in the context of using it every time you camp when setting up tents?  Maybe he remembers it as some other name - like tent peg knot.   Or maybe he just finds knots boring and hasn't seen good examples of their importance.

 

That happens to everyone about the knots.

 

I agree with you about your 2nd half of your post, and I find it fantastic that they can just “filter†it out.

 

 

  

I'm a middle school teacher. Welcome to my world.

If you enjoy it isn’t that all that matters?

[scoutldr]

Brian, this is nothing new.  My own son will be 40 next year...growing up, I could name any pro baseball player and he could recite the complete player's stats and playing history and the current value of his rookie card.  But he couldn't tell you what month followed July, or his multilplication tables.  He aged out of Scouting as a Star, and when he went to college, he thanked me for all the skills he had picked up along the way.  The other kids in his dorm had never cooked a meal or washed their own clothes and he had to teach them.  He is now a District Manager for a major food and restaurant supply distribution company making over 6 figures, with a wife and son of his own and we are very proud.

[ItsBrian]

Brian, this is nothing new.  My own son will be 40 next year...growing up, I could name any pro baseball player and he could recite the complete player's stats and playing history and the current value of his rookie card.  But he couldn't tell you what month followed July, or his multilplication tables.  He aged out of Scouting as a Star, and when he went to college, he thanked me for all the skills he had picked up along the way.  The other kids in his dorm had never cooked a meal or washed their own clothes and he had to teach them.  He is now a District Manager for a major food and restaurant supply distribution company making over 6 figures, with a wife and son of his own and we are very proud.

I’m not saying it’s just now a issue, but I find Scouts are more immature than they use to be. If you compare this years sophomores and freshman in high school, you can see the immaturity level was is different, and how the sophomores acted last year (my grade) as freshman is complete different.

[SSScout]

As  in everything else in the world, we remember the things that are/were important to us.  My phone number when I was in third grade: Walker 4-7221.

Five  things CAN make a skill remembered:  Good, pleasant associations, Bad, unpleasant associations,  Repetition,  Need of use, and Pride of use.  

 

When I teach ropes and knots to Cubs, I try to give them pleasant, fun associations and repetition and pride. 
*  ""Cubs, NEVER buy rope with only one end, such rope is inherently defective and will only give you trouble. ALWAYS buy two ended rope.""  (Oh, the looks on their faces...)

** Show teach them some "fun" knots, like the Chain Knot, or the multiple string knot...

*** Bowline? Show'em the three types ( only one will "pass" the requirement), the three ways to tie the correct one...

**** "Mr. SSScout, what kind of knot is THIS (showing a jumble) ?"  "What's your name, Scout?"  "Tommy!"  " Well, that's a Tommy knot !"

*****  Tie it again, tie it to your neighbor, tie it on your mom's arm. Square knot?   We tie each Cub's practice rope to his neighbor's, in a big circle, and see if we can tug-o-war the circle. Will it hold? Will any knot come loose?  Granny, is it? 

******   Scouts should always be given REASONS to practice these skills:   Build a tower, a catapult, a gateway, a handwash tripod, (shudder) set up a tent/dining fly  without bungee cords. 

******* Patrol competitions in Troop meetings, in Camporees.    Tie the knot/lashings the fastest, correctly.  ""Oh, we have an emergency ! A Patrol forgot their tents ! We need TRIPODS and EXTRA LONG POLES to set up tarps for shelter !  Oh, who will be the quickest !"

 

Itsbrian, if your complaint is valid (yeah, it is), the fault lies equally in the Scout's and his leader's lap.  The Scout hasn't seen the need, hasn't had fun at it, and hasn't taken the pride in the knowledge.  Give'm the opportunity.   Give'm the "attaboys" when they deserve 'm.  

 

See you on the trail. 

[ItsBrian]

As  in everything else in the world, we remember the things that are/were important to us.  My phone number when I was in third grade: Walker 4-7221.

Five  things CAN make a skill remembered:  Good, pleasant associations, Bad, unpleasant associations,  Repetition,  Need of use, and Pride of use.  

 

When I teach ropes and knots to Cubs, I try to give them pleasant, fun associations and repetition and pride. 

*  ""Cubs, NEVER buy rope with only one end, such rope is inherently defective and will only give you trouble. ALWAYS buy two ended rope.""  (Oh, the looks on their faces...)

** Show teach them some "fun" knots, like the Chain Knot, or the multiple string knot...

*** Bowline? Show'em the three types ( only one will "pass" the requirement), the three ways to tie the correct one...

**** "Mr. SSScout, what kind of knot is THIS (showing a jumble) ?"  "What's your name, Scout?"  "Tommy!"  " Well, that's a Tommy knot !"

*****  Tie it again, tie it to your neighbor, tie it on your mom's arm. Square knot?   We tie each Cub's practice rope to his neighbor's, in a big circle, and see if we can tug-o-war the circle. Will it hold? Will any knot come loose?  Granny, is it? 

******   Scouts should always be given REASONS to practice these skills:   Build a tower, a catapult, a gateway, a handwash tripod, (shudder) set up a tent/dining fly  without bungee cords. 

******* Patrol competitions in Troop meetings, in Camporees.    Tie the knot/lashings the fastest, correctly.  ""Oh, we have an emergency ! A Patrol forgot their tents ! We need TRIPODS and EXTRA LONG POLES to set up tarps for shelter !  Oh, who will be the quickest !"

 

Itsbrian, if your complaint is valid (yeah, it is), the fault lies equally in the Scout's and his leader's lap.  The Scout hasn't seen the need, hasn't had fun at it, and hasn't taken the pride in the knowledge.  Give'm the opportunity.   Give'm the "attaboys" when they deserve 'm.  

 

See you on the trail.

 

It seems you are more experienced in cub scouts, but I’ll ask anyway. We actually built a catapult this weekend, and they wanted nothing to do with it... what’s more exciting then launching something from a contraption you made? How do you get a 13-14 year old to be interested in knots, first aid, etc.? Speaking of first aid, we do scenarios, we do activities about it, and they practice. We follow the EDGE, but there’s no letter to gain appeal of the subject.

[qwazse]

Been using it {EDGE} since Troop was formed.

So, does that tell us something about the utility of EDGE?

People forget skills, no matter how much they were enabled to do then months or years ago. Whole civilizations may be lost (c.f. Dark Ages).

Fundamental to mastering skills is a reference. Like a handbook, that scouts are encouraged to read first before attempting to receive any explaination. And that they can follow while being guided, until told "Next week, come do it with the book closed."

 

Then there are the right carrots ... "Yo, two half hitch masters, with me to the trading post. The rest of you, to your books. Show me your skills when I get back."

[Sentinel947]

I wouldn't say EDGE is deficient. Its just missing R. Repition. A skill needs to repeated over time to be used. Knots or normally taught, then forgotten till the next outing.

[ItsBrian]

I wouldn't say EDGE is deficient. Its just missing R. Repition. A skill needs to repeated over time to be used. Knots or normally taught, then forgotten till the next outing.

Completely agree with that, it takes everyone a little while if repition. Some scouts have been in the troop for two years, and we do have random meetings a month dedicated to certain things.

[ItsBrian]

So, does that tell us something about the utility of EDGE?

People forget skills, no matter how much they were enabled to do then months or years ago. Whole civilizations may be lost (c.f. Dark Ages).

Fundamental to mastering skills is a reference. Like a handbook, that scouts are encouraged to read first before attempting to receive any explaination. And that they can follow while being guided, until told "Next week, come do it with the book closed."

Then there are the right carrots ... "Yo, two half hitch masters, with me to the trading post. The rest of you, to your books. Show me your skills when I get back."

I understand how people may forget, but if it’s something you’ve been doing in the troop for 2 years, I hope you would remember.

[HelpfulTracks]

"Scouting is a game with a purpose" and digital vs analog.

 

Scouts remember Pokémon (or any other game) because they are having fun. Knowing the games details, like Pokémon's abilities, is a natural extension of the fun. Far too often, Scouting's "gems" have become class work and drudgery. Scout's will do what they enjoy (or need to know to have fun) hundreds or thousands of times. They will do what they MUST, but don't see as fun, as little as humanly possible. The repetition is what makes it part of their memory.

 

Youth today are grounded in the digital world. Much, if not most, of their world is lived with a digital background. My generation was almost entirely analog. We had our hands in the mud, not on keyboards. It is just a different starting point to learn from. That means there may be more of a learning curve and thus a more to remember.

 

As Scout leaders it is our job to help them make Scouting fund and understand where their starting point is and, how they learn, so we can better help them get there.

 

That makes our job little more difficult, but I imagine no more so than the generation that taught us.