Flag Etiquette

[LittleCarl]

I am hoping for some good advice and hope to not set off a firestorm. I am the CC of my troop and my troop was given a VERY large flag. Last year we participated in the local Veterans Parade and decided to carry this flag through the parade. When the Parade Director caught wind of what we were going to do he moved us from last to the lead of the parade.

 

This Flag measures 25 x 40. We carried the Flag through the parade horizontally (it was the only way), the field of blue leading. There was no banner identifying us in the lead. The flag was surrounded with scouts in full uniform and we marched accordingly.

 

This is the problem. A former disgruntled parent, part of a group of disgruntled parents, complained to the Parade Director we were disrespectful to the flag. He was unaffected by the complaint and when he contacted me to let me know what happened he requested we participate next year, because he received more complements than complaints. He was very impressed as well as others.

 

There is a local parade happening this weekend. We are planning on carrying the Flag again. The same group caught wind of what we are doing and are complaining again that what we are about to do is illegal, disrespectful, and against BSA policy.

 

We were advised by the American Flag Foundation, The U.S. Code doesn't specifically address the issue of how to carry an extra-large flag. National Flag Foundation suggests that it can be appropriate to carry an extra-large flag horizontally as long as it is done respectfully.

 

The U.S. Flag Code is an advisory document as well and it does not say you cannot carry the flag horizontally. It says it should not be carried horizontally.

 

And as for BSA policy, I havent found one.

 

I believe, providing we carry the flag in a respectful and honorable fashion we are just fine. By respectful and honorable I mean, full uniform, march in an orderly manner, do not allow it to touch the ground, etc.

 

What does everyone else think?

 

 

[Bob White]

The Flag Code passed by Congress specifically says that the American Flag should not be carried horizontal to the ground. However It has been done that way at the Olympics many times. I can see how it is a very effective display if there is an audience with a view from overhead.

 

It really is your call. You know that it will bother some people and technically appears to be incorrect. How necessary is it to your role in the parade?

[LittleCarl]

You are correct. The Flag Code states should not be carried horizontal to the ground. It does not say will not be carried horizontal to the ground. Our role is not necessary at all. We do not have to participate, or we could do something else.

 

Does BSA have policy stipulating display of the Flag? If so, I cannot imagine it would be any different than the US Flag Code. The reason I ask is because this group is the type to use violation of BSA policy to drum others and me out of Scouting if they could.

 

[John-in-KC]

Speaking as a Soldier, as a Veteran, as someone who did his ROTC scholarship as a member of my Detachment's Color Guard...

 

I would ask the Legion or the VFW to have their Color Guards march fore and aft of you.

 

You do have the legitimate option of carrying the Color in its Tricorn cockade folding. That is always proper and legitimate. Consider it

 

When you're batched with other patriotic groups, and they support what you're doing, the whiners can pound sand.

 

John

[Eagle74]

Here is the Code wording:

 

U.S. Code

Title 4

Chapter 1

Section 7 - Position & Manner of Display Section 8 - Respect for Flag

Paragraph c) - The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.

(emphasis added)

 

Flag Code wording throughout is "should", "should not", "should never", etc. There are no instances of "shall", "shall not", "shall never."

 

"Should never" appears to be pretty strong wording, particularly when taken in context with other instances of this type of wording throughout the Code. Has it been done before? Often, respectfully, and under quite prominent circumstances. I would personally not find it offensive, but agree with BW that "it's really your call . . . and technically appears to be incorrect." Only you can evaluate the specific situation and whether the potential battle is worth fighting, or not.

 

[LovetoCamp]

With Paul Bunyan and Iron Giant incapacitated, how else is a 40' flag going to be carried? Have the VFW Commander make the call with the parade director present. Continue to march!!!

[Bob White]

I would think a flag that size is designed to be flown in accordance with the flag code.

[NeilLup]

Hello Carl,

 

I am sure that any "BSA policy" would be to follow the US Flag Code and follow the wishes of the parade sponsors (assuming no disrespect, no inappropriate commercial ventures, etc.)

 

As far as individuals trying to get you thrown out of Scouting for this, a technical violation of the Flag Code by carrying such a huge flag in a parade in accordance with the wishes of the parade sponsors is the proverbial flea on the hair on the wart on the leg on the frog on the log in the bottom of the sea in terms of importance.

[OldGreyEagle]

I don't know how many football fans we have here, specifically the NFL fans, although there have been a few references to the NFL now and then.

 

Those of you who follow the NFL will remember that after 9-11, many pre-game festivities included an American flag that would be stretched horizontally across the entire field. The bearers would ripple the flag while the Anthem was played. It was to me a rather awe inspiring sight, not at all disrespectful. At no time was I aware of any group complaining the presentation of the flag as such was disrespectful or wrong.

 

To see the grand old flag being carried in smartly uniformed scouts stepping with pride and vigor cannot be bad.

 

LittleCarl, you do what you feel you must, I cant beleive carrying such a flag in the manner you describe would be grounds for dismissal from the program. I think anyone "they" complain to will see the protest for what it is, a tempest in a teapot and you will be fine.

[LovetoCamp]

The first game at Soldier Field after 9/11 they had a flag that covered most of the field held by dozens of boots from Great Lakes. It had to be held horizontally. I'm sure all those squid officers were aware of the flag code and interpretted it for a respectful display. Not a dry eye in the place.

 

If a decsion has to be made, I would say that an organization carrying an extra large flag in a respectful manner horizontally is a go.

 

Forward, March(This message has been edited by Trail Pounder)

[acco40]

Johnny to his mother, "Can I parade around naked at school?" "No!", replied his mother. "Why not?", asked Johnny, "Billy does."

 

I am continuously amazed by the number of adults who make the same argument. Yes people carry the flag parallel to the ground. Yes, American en masse flew those silly flags from their automobile windows after 9/9/11. Yes, all of the above violates the US Flag Code. Because others do it does not make it right. Is it a big deal? No. I agree with the response of NeilLup on the importance of the violation.

 

Only in America does the "bigger is better" mentality pertain to flags. Do we feel the need to "super size" that symbol too?

[LovetoCamp]

I am amazed by the amount of ink wasted by people who are highly hacked off by people flying little flags off of their SUVs.

 

The Chicago Trib had a continuous stream of left-wingers griping and moaning about Mr. & Mrs. Joe Six Pack flying those little flags off their cars.

 

Why acco40, what is it about those little flags or the people that fly them bugs you so much?(This message has been edited by Trail Pounder)

[LittleCarl]

The attitude acco40 is exhibiting is exactly what we are up against. We did not go out and purchase this Flag. It was given to us. Do we have to carry it in the parade? No. We would like to. Yes. Can we? Thats what we are trying to find out. acco40 states it violates the US Flag Code. Violates? The US Flag Code is an advisory document. It provides guideline for how the Flag SHOULD be treated. It is not a law.

 

If it were, then Kid Rock, the Chicago Bears, the US Navy, the soccer player, the hockey player, The track and field star and anyone who burns a flag in protest is in violation of the law. And this could not be. Because no matter how distasteful it may be to us, or anyone, they have a right. Its called the First Amendment.

 

I take offense to the comment that we are super sizing. Most people have never been within 10 feet of a flag of this size. It is an impressive sight to behold. As impressive as what it stands for. Do we want to impress people? Hello... I think there should be more impressing going on in this country right about now.

[nldscout]

to me this is a down right silly discussion. It is not disrespectful, and lots of groups do it to honor the flag. Our troop has help the Loacl Elks numerous times to carry thier flag. As for the complainers, let them complain, whoppee! big deal!

 

As for raising it on a pole, great idea, but most places don't have 150 ft poles to raise a flag this size on

 

[red feather]

carry the flag

 

The rest of the nay sayers can pound sand, with a flag this size, respect for the flag and what it stands for is what matters. Not to mention what the lesson taught to the scouts carrying it. And what they will learn and remember.

 

yis