Will you poach our crew's women?

[justbill]

You may be anticipating a problem that doesn't exist. I was both in scouts and sea explorers simultaneously. Our ship only asked that if we were going to work on eagle and quartermaster that we finish eagle first.

[qwazse]

Welcome to the forums @justbill !

[Jameson76]

Will you poach our crew's women?

Do they have ear tags?  Have you claimed them?  Seems really cavemanny

[Eagledad]

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 6:57 AM, scotteg83 said:

 

Maybe I am mistaken, but isn't Venturing ment to be HIGHER "Venturing" then normal scouts?  Going on more challenging trips then local "car camping".   In my mind, Boy Scouts from 11-14 would be time to work on merit badges and eagle, and assuming they get their eagle before 18, they would then join Venturing to stay motivated in Scouting.  I have had a few 14 year old Eagle Scouts that drifted away because there was "nothing left" for them to do, I always promote Venturing as the next step.

This is the standard opinion of most scout leaders in the BSA program, and I cringe every time I hear it.

When I was the district membership adviser and SM trainer, I taught troop and crew leaders that program is the attraction, or detraction, for older scouts. And, the older scout program is the performance indicator of the "whole" troop program. If the average age of your older scouts is 14-15, your program isn't very good for the younger scouts either. And directing the program toward advancement is a sure killer of a successful adventure program.

My experience is troops that focus on advancement for the younger scouts will loose their older scouts to outside programs with more mature mentally and physically challenging activities. Some will go to OA, Venturing Crews, sports, band, and even chess club, depending on how the maturity of those activities are compared to the troop.

Venturing is more successful when the program is viewed by it's adults as another adventure scouting program, not as the next step (or higher step) in the BSA ladder.

Barry

Edited February 5, 2018 by Eagledad

[Col. Flagg]

2 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Venturing is more successful when the program is viewed by it's adults as another adventure scouting program, not as the next step (or higher step) in the BSA ladder.

It will be interesting to see what becomes of Venturing. It flounders now. I can only imagine what will happen when we have to contend with girl units recruiting for the same Scouts (14+) we will. It will just be more noise in an already overpopulated pool of activities for kids. IMHO, for girl "boy" Scouts to take off they need to 86 the Venturing program. It is a shadow of its former self now. I don't see it growing after girl boy Scouts come calling. 

[Eagledad]

2 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

It will be interesting to see what becomes of Venturing. It flounders now. I can only imagine what will happen when we have to contend with girl units recruiting for the same Scouts (14+) we will. It will just be more noise in an already overpopulated pool of activities for kids. IMHO, for girl "boy" Scouts to take off they need to 86 the Venturing program. It is a shadow of its former self now. I don't see it growing after girl boy Scouts come calling. 

I kind of agree. I liked the Venturing program because it was, in my opinion, an appropriate time to mix the two genders. Before puberty, youth learn best by observing same gender role models. Mixing the genders only confuses the possible growth. But after puberty, after the youth set their basic behavior habits, mixed genders add to the gains of the possible growth from the more mature program. Now that the program is mixed in the younger ages, the advantage of growth at the troop age has been negated.

On the flip side of your thoughts, the most successful Venturing Crews in our area are the ones that specialize in non scouting related activities like: Law Inforcement, Medical, Aviation, Scuba and others that I forgetting. The least successful are the Venturing Crews created by troops to extend their older scout programs (actually to save their older scout programs). My guess is that whatever membership trend follows these new changes will have the same affect on Venturing.

Barry

[Col. Flagg]

7 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

On the flip side of your thoughts, the most successful Venturing Crews in our area are the ones that specialize in non scouting related activities like: Law Enforcement, Medical, Aviation, Scuba and others that I forgetting. The least successful are the Venturing Crews created by troops to extend their older scout programs (actually to save their older scout programs). My guess is that whatever membership trend follows these new changes will have the same affect on Venturing.

I have seen this as well. I would add that the other very successful Venturing Crews I have seen are those that really focus on high adventure-type activities. We have a few locally that do "club stuff" each month, but have 4-6 trips a year for some really cool stuff.

[Hawkwin]

Could also be just the opposite. Opening BSA to girls could help fuel their eventual recruitment to Venturing. My guess is that Venturing pulls very few girls from Girl Scouts and instead gets most who are not members of either (for now at least).

A stereotyped opinion follows but I would guess that girls, in general, are less interested in the various swag of membership and advancement and are more interested in the experiences of such. Venturing would seem to fit that well.

 

[Col. Flagg]

15 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Could also be just the opposite. Opening BSA to girls could help fuel their eventual recruitment to Venturing. My guess is that Venturing pulls very few girls from Girl Scouts and instead gets most who are not members of either (for now at least).

I am not sure how this would work. You've just created a new product that has the goal of getting Scouting's highest award which typically takes boys from 11-15 (or longer). So I am not confident girls are going to jump to Venturing, but rather spend their 14-16 year old years working toward Eagle. Not to mention older girls who may want to get Eagle and will forego Venturing.

Maybe long term -- and we are talking several years -- you might see some older girls wanting to join Venturing much like older boys join it now. But the big appeal of Venturing was that it offered stuff GSUSA didn't, so they joined us to get that "Boy Scout" experience. You've now given them all that at an earlier age, so what's the draw of Venturing?

[krikkitbot]

On 2/5/2018 at 11:21 AM, Col. Flagg said:

but rather spend their 14-16 year old years working toward Eagle.

So here goes another stereotype...

I think girls are going to put their nose to the grindstone and get through to Eagle way faster than the average boy. As a general rule girls mature at a younger age than boys. I think we will see a bump in 13-14 year old Eagles and screams from people saying they are taking shortcuts or not ready to Eagle so young. 

[Hawkwin]

On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 1:21 PM, Col. Flagg said:

so what's the draw of Venturing?

The same draw that exists now for boys and girls, yet more existing boy scout girls will have an awareness of it?

I don't assume to know what will happen but my hypothesis is that having more girls in BSA is probably better for girls in Venturing than having no girls in BSA.

[Col. Flagg]

36 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

The same draw that exists now for boys and girls, yet more existing boy scout girls will have an awareness of it?

I don't assume to know what will happen but my hypothesis is that having more girls in BSA is probably better for girls in Venturing than having no girls in BSA.

Why would you assume that? BSA has just created a competing product. So when we have been recruiting this year so far, all my Crew has been hearing from girls is either 1) No thanks, or 2) I am going to join Scouts to work on Eagle. That's what's really happening, as opposed to what BSA thinks will happen.

[MattR]

The thing I've always liked about venturing is that advancement is not such a big deal. I honestly think it's truer to scouting then boy scouts. Adventure and fun. The problem I've seen is that the parents don't really know about it and so there's little motivation for it. Also, the scouts that I've seen aren't really prepared to lead when they get there. The girls have little experience in the outdoors. The result is a very anemic program. I'm sure there are some good units but for the most part it's a bunch of kids without much motivation.

I'd be more interested in working with crews but I think it would be easier if they dropped the age so that leadership and teamwork can be the focus while they're young and more receptive. I do think coed troops could honestly help crews as the girls would have more opportunity to learn some outdoor skills and also make friends at an age where that's critical. There are some kids that just want the adventure and fun, don't really care for the MBs and ranks and don't really fit in with the boy scout program.

Rather than have a troop create a venturing crew for older scouts (which I know, does not work) how about a venturing crew create a troop just to handle the younger scouts until they're old enough for venturing?

[Col. Flagg]

6 minutes ago, MattR said:

Rather than have a troop create a venturing crew for older scouts (which I know, does not work) how about a venturing crew create a troop just to handle the younger scouts until they're old enough for venturing?

Like the LDS did? 

Your points on Venturing are somewhat true. Girls tend to have less experience outdoors and with general leadership, whereas the boys tend to have more leadership and stronger outdoor skills. In my experience (and this will get @Stosh happy) the girls tend to be better at management, rather than leadership. So managing the Crew tends to get picked up by the girls pretty well. Leadership, during the activities and events, tends to be more the boys area.

I agree in lowering the age. I would have much rather seen Venturing be the program to bring coed Scouting to a larger age group, rather than girls in Boy Scouts.

[krikkitbot]

I think that building up the feeding pool from cubs to scouts to venturing will help add numbers to all programs. It's easier to enroll them when they are young and retain them as they move along. Think about how many scouts are in your troop who never went through cubs. Same for venturing.