OFFICIAL NEWS RELEASE: Girls as Youth Members, All Programs

[Eagledad]

 

We need to stop talking ABOUT personal attacks, as well. If someone has a complaint about someone else’s behavior, there is a flag report system. If someone has a complaint about an action by a moderator, they can email or PM SCOUTER-Terry.

 

Going forward in this thread, we need to EITHER discuss THE TOPIC, which is the upcoming change in BSA policies and programs, or else bring this thread to a close. I (and the other moderators) prefer to have threads come to a natural conclusion. But if this discussion does not get back to the topic immediately, and stay there exclusively, this thread will be locked, and if necessary, other appropriate action will be taken as well.

 

The list handled the situation quite well without Johnny come lately moderators bringing their rulers to rap knuckles.  The crowd had dispersed 12 hours before NJ jumped in.  

 

Some of us are grown ups and can handle the occasional tantrum. We save red flags for when there is really a need for caped crusaders.  

 

Come on mods, do no harm.

 

Barry

[David CO]

We have recently seen many instances of people being accused of bad behavior many years after the incidents are said to have occurred. I have no idea if these specific accusations are true or not, so I won't speculate. 

 

I have no sympathy for the guilty, but it makes me shudder to think that an innocent man might be accused of misconduct. My concern is not so much that girls in the scouting program might make false accusations today. It is twenty years from now that worries me. 

 

I am really glad that we didn't have girls in scouting thirty or forty years ago, when I was a young scoutmaster. I don't think I would advise a young man today to become a scout leader, like I did. 

[Eagledad]

Interestingly most of the adult problems I've seen as far as crossing the line are women leaders. I'll never forget the very attractive young Webelos leader mom who enjoyed the attention from the camp youth staff a little too much. Other instances were female leaders (moms) walking into the showers to check on their scouts who seem to be staying in the showers longer than they should. I really believe the inappropriateness of their action never occurred to them because they were just being mom.  But it occurred often enough that the camp director had to call a meeting of all the unit leaders to once more REVIEW the rules and guidelines.

 

Now that more girls are entering the scene, there will likely be a few....misunderstandings.

 

Barry

Edited November 20, 2017 by Eagledad

[Hawkwin]

We have recently seen many instances of people being accused of bad behavior many years after the incidents are said to have occurred. I have no idea if these specific accusations are true or not, so I won't speculate. 

 

I have no sympathy for the guilty, but it makes me shudder to think that an innocent man might be accused of misconduct. My concern is not so much that girls in the scouting program might make false accusations today. It is twenty years from now that worries me. 

 

I am really glad that we didn't have girls in scouting thirty or forty years ago, when I was a young scoutmaster. I don't think I would advise a young man today to become a scout leader, like I did. 

 

 

I am not aware of other coed organizations now suffering a rash of old false sexual assault accusations. Are you? If so, can you share them?

 

If you are not aware of such, then why assume that BSA would have a lot of them?

 

And why assume our female scouters would be so dishonest as to make such false claims? Do our current male scouts make a lot of false claims?

 

I am reminded of a post from one my relatives when this was announced. She was afraid that if girls joined, that they would all get sexually assaulted by their fellow scouts and scout leaders. I reminded her that the only way would happen is if scouts was full of a bunch leaders and scouts that are predators. I think more highly of our scouts and leaders than to assume that the admittance of girls will either result in a massive increase in assaults, or false claims of such.

[David CO]

 

Now that more girls are entering the scene, there will likely be a few....misunderstandings.

 

 

When women do it, it is a misunderstanding. When men do it, it is a crime.

 

We have the same problem at school. We often have to tell the women that they cannot go into the boys' washroom. They should know that without being told.

[David CO]

I am not aware of other coed organizations now suffering a rash of old false sexual assault accusations. Are you? If so, can you share them?

 

 

I could share hundreds of stories of false accusations against male teachers. 

 

I wouldn't say there is a "rash" of false accusations. Nor would I say that it happens a lot. I would say that it happens often enough to give men a good reason to not volunteer to work with girls.

[David CO]

Do our current male scouts make a lot of false claims?

 

 

Again, I wouldn't say that there are a lot of false claims, but there are false claims. 

[WisconsinMomma]

The BSA has Youth Protection and two-deep leadership. This should help protect everyone regarding matters of privacy.   Follow the guidelines and behave properly and any leader, male or female, should be fine. 

 

I don't think there's anything to worry about... unless a person is behaving badly.  Then yes, that person should be very, very worried. 

[David CO]

 

I don't think there's anything to worry about...  

 

Easy for you to say.

[WisconsinMomma]

If you do not think that the young women in the future of Scouting will be both clean and trustworthy, then perhaps it is time to reconsider your involvement. 

 

In Scouting, youth uphold values to a higher standard than the general population.

[Eagledad]

If you do not think that the young women in the future of Scouting will be both clean and trustworthy, then perhaps it is time to reconsider your involvement. 

 

In Scouting, youth uphold values to a higher standard than the general population.

Please don't do that. Don't turn a discussion around by accusing someone of being other than what was intended so you can control the discussion. That was not what was being talked about. And if you don't think there won't be a learning curve on a sudden new change of membership by adding a completely new gender of youth, then you are being naïve. I gave real life of examples of adults making mistakes simply because they just weren't used to the new side of the program. You can be open enough to discuss you opinion without demonizing the opinion.

 

I will add one more. A professional once told me some years ago that there are, what he called, Boy Scout babies. These are babies that were conceived on a BSA campout. He would not give details. But things can and do happen.

 

Barry

[WisconsinMomma]

We can agree to disagree then.  I believe that the Youth Protection guidelines will protect and prevent many problems.  Of course there are errors and things that need to be addressed.  People make mistakes and will need to be coached and corrected at times.  

 

I think that most Scouters are up to the challenges of a changing program and have the skills and courage to build a future that includes female Scouts.  

 

There's not a lot of reason to over-think or over-worry in advance.  

 

Lastly, if a man does not want to work with women and girls because he is afraid of false accusations, or for any other reason, then he will need to make a choice about his role in the organization if / when more women and girls become involved. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by WisconsinMomma

[Eagledad]

We can agree to disagree then.  I believe that the Youth Protection guidelines will protect and prevent many problems.  Of course there are errors and things that need to be addressed.  People make mistakes and will need to be coached and corrected at times.  

 

I think that most Scouters are up to the challenges of a changing program and have the skills and courage to build a future that includes female Scouts.  

 

There's not a lot of reason to over-think or over-worry in advance.  

I'm not sure what you think we are agreeing to disagree on. The membership change hasn't happened yet.

 

This is a forum: over thinking is what we do. And when you gain as much experience in the program as many here have, you might have a different perspective of what discussion can bring educationally to the group. Everyone is up for the challenge, but many of the challenges are unknowns. It's ok to talk about unknowns. As an engineer, I get paid everyday to consider the unknowns....and discuss them.

 

Barry

[Stosh]

Last summer....

 

Scout/Venturing activity at council camp....

 

Venturing girl wearing short-shorts and t-shirt with knot in bottom...

 

Spent her time "prancing" (not my description) in front of the boys....

 

Kept it up until my female ASM confronted her and told her to go get dressed and come back when she's ready to behave.

 

It happens, and it will happen again.  This is just the beginning.  With 45+ year working with co-ed groups, I can assure everyone this is only the beginning.

[WisconsinMomma]

<<<This is a forum: over thinking is what we do.

 

 

Barry>>>

 

 

LOL, Barry!   That's a good one.

 

Here's a quote from one of my favorite mentors:

 

Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift and that's why it's called the present.