NJCubScouter Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Actually have folk in my district who believe that the 11-17 year old program will have a new role for parents and younger siblings because the BSA keeps using "Family." They think it will be a continuation of Cub Scouts. Well, there you go. National thought they were being clever, but they outsmarted themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Well, there you go. National thought they were being clever, but they outsmarted themselves. Additionally, some of the same folks thinks that since Cub Scout family camping has no requirements on the genders of the adults attending, i.e. all dads could camp with their sons and daughters or all moms camp with with their sons and daughters, that if no ladies can attend a camp out, as long as the female Scout's dad is in attendance, it will be allowed. All because BSA is using "Family Scouting." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkwin Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 I think people are reading way too much in to the word Family than is meant. This is the article and I agree that too many took it way out of context. No where in the article did it even mention the word scouts. This was all about getting the entire family outdoors (instead of just the scout): A first-timer’s guide to camping with the whole family https://scoutingmagazine.org/2017/08/first-timers-guide-camping-whole-family/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Perhaps the issue is a lot of us are very sensitive to what National is saying and National is not very precise in it their terms. But, regardless of what National is TRYING to say, in our Troop I have observed two conclusions (and frankly I do not want to talk about it there because I get my fill here): 1- The adults for the most part think Boy Scout Troops will have boys and girls in it either has boy and girl patrols or mixed gender patrols. They think this is two years away. This has been reinforced by Media coverage and GSUSA comments. 2- The boys, who are mixed on the girl issue, are thinking that we will be required to have "Family type" campouts (whatever that means) and Boy Scouts will be like Cub Scout campouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Like TT, I don't want to waste words with scouters or scouts in my district. If a handful of girls come knocking, our COR made it clear that the CO wants to try to support them, and that stupid third point of the Law will constrain me. Until then there is nothing to talk about. Some scouters have brought this up with the boys' sisters, and none of them are interested. BSA really derailed themselves with all of the "family" doublespeak. When they simply market this as for girls (i.e., 4G), we can all be honest about what we're supporting or opposing. I am certain that scouters opposed to BSA4G are pro-family types just as much as those in favor of it. I loved it when Son #2's best frien took his family camping after his first summer camp. As I've said elsewhere, I'd be fine with increasing the nights required for Camping MB if nights under the stars with folks outside the boys troop (e.g., family, youth group, soccer team) could count. So, if you said "family camping" four years ago, I'd say "Great, that's one desired outcome." But by trying to use a buzzword that everyone is supposed to like for policies that people will have apprehensions about, National muddied waters needlessly and insulted the intelligence of a couple million scouts and scouters. So, we've got people arguing over the lipstick on the pig when the only thing that matters is how long the bacon's cured. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jameson76 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 2- The boys, who are mixed on the girl issue, are thinking that we will be required to have "Family type" campouts (whatever that means) and Boy Scouts will be like Cub Scout campouts. Cub scout campouts...tents the size of houses, enough gear to lay siege to a castle, cars literally parked everywhere, people arriving constantly, people departing constantly...do not miss those Agree that the constant mention of "family" is concerning. What does it really mean, what next will change. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Additionally, some of the same folks thinks that since Cub Scout family camping has no requirements on the genders of the adults attending, i.e. all dads could camp with their sons and daughters or all moms camp with with their sons and daughters, that if no ladies can attend a camp out, as long as the female Scout's dad is in attendance, it will be allowed. All because BSA is using "Family Scouting." Unless I am misunderstanding your scenario, I thought that WAS allowed. For Cub Scouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 My real world experience in Cub Scouts is Grandparents, Uncles, Aunts, "Friends with Benefits" (even had a former scouter neighbor) show up on family campouts not always the classic nuclear family implied in a term like 'Family Camping'. It gets messy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 My real world experience in Cub Scouts is Grandparents, Uncles, Aunts, "Friends with Benefits" (even had a former scouter neighbor) show up on family campouts not always the classic nuclear family implied in a term like 'Family Camping'. It gets messy. Messy and a Youth Protection problem as well. The YP guidelines say the youth may share a tent with a "family member" but nobody else. Grandparents, uncles and aunts are ok; in my son's pack there was always a kid or two whose uncle was there instead of a parent. The rest of your list are not permitted though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Messy and a Youth Protection problem as well. The YP guidelines say the youth may share a tent with a "family member" but nobody else. Grandparents, uncles and aunts are ok; in my son's pack there was always a kid or two whose uncle was there instead of a parent. The rest of your list are not permitted though. No kidding but it always gets volunteered AFTER they are already there and the tent is up. I do not miss the "tent ghettos" of our Pack of 150 family campouts. There were always a few couples who 'performed for the crowd' behind thin tent walls. Awkward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) Messy and a Youth Protection problem as well. The YP guidelines say the youth may share a tent with a "family member" but nobody else. Grandparents, uncles and aunts are ok; in my son's pack there was always a kid or two whose uncle was there instead of a parent. The rest of your list are not permitted though. Only the parents and court designated legal guardians or anyone with blood relations out to the 4th and 5th generation? or how about step-parents? and the list goes on and on. Going to make YPT a nightmare. Edited November 17, 2017 by Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 No kidding but it always gets volunteered AFTER they are already there and the tent is up. I do not miss the "tent ghettos" of our Pack of 150 family campouts. There were always a few couples who 'performed for the crowd' behind thin tent walls. Awkward. If only there was a Guide to Safe Family Scouting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) What's the insurance ramifications for "family". Would a non-custodial "step-dad" be covered? How will he fit into YPT? He is not a parent nor legal guardian and not registered as a scouter. Could get interesting. Edited November 17, 2017 by Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Unless I am misunderstanding your scenario, I thought that WAS allowed. For Cub Scouts. Yes it is allowed for Cub Scouts. But I'm talking at the 11-17 yo Scout level. Already have folks mention how if they cannot get females to camp with the girls, or camp in general since some troops have stated they will go coed anyway, that as long as dad is camping, daughter can camp too. Which as some know from Venturing / Exploring experience, that is not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Yes it is allowed for Cub Scouts. But I'm talking at the 11-17 yo Scout level. Already have folks mention how if they cannot get females to camp with the girls, or camp in general since some troops have stated they will go coed anyway, that as long as dad is camping, daughter can camp too. Which as some know from Venturing / Exploring experience, that is not the case. Well now I'm confused. I thought we were discussing tenting policy in relation to Cub Scout family camping (in which every tent has a Cub Scout and his parent(s).) Now you are talking about the leaders-of-both-genders-on-coed-outings rule, which is a separate issue from sleeping accommodations. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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