OFFICIAL NEWS RELEASE: Girls as Youth Members, All Programs

[Tampa Turtle]

I come to the (obvious) realization that National neither sought nor values the opinions of the Scouts and Scouters on a lot of issues. They see us as customers to be placated, sold to, and replaced when we leave. Not partners to engage in meaningful discussion about policies that affect them. When a decision, even a right decision, is arrived at a bit deceptively it is hard to believe what they say afterwards even if it is the truth. It is the lack of a real dialogue that bothers me the most; it is in 'Covey-speak' a huge withdrawal of trust in my opinion. 

 

I took the survey, I attended my Council meeting and I know what I speak. It was a sell job for a pre-arrived at decision.

 

Maybe I am just a naive dinosaur and believe that the Scout Law should extend not just from me to my scouts but upwards from me to National. I used to believe that Boy Scouts was some how different than other organizations--they sure get a lot of mileage out of nostalgia--but they seem, in my eyes, no different than other laudable organizations like the American Red Cross or United Way that became such a valued icon they lost their way.

[Back Pack]

I come to the (obvious) realization that National neither sought nor values the opinions of the Scouts and Scouters on a lot of issues. They see us as customers to be placated, sold to, and replaced when we leave. Not partners to engage in meaningful discussion about policies that affect them. When a decision, even a right decision, is arrived at a bit deceptively it is hard to believe what they say afterwards even if it is the truth. It is the lack of a real dialogue that bothers me the most; it is in 'Covey-speak' a huge withdrawal of trust in my opinion. 

 

I took the survey, I attended my Council meeting and I know what I speak. It was a sell job for a pre-arrived at decision.

 

Maybe I am just a naive dinosaur and believe that the Scout Law should extend not just from me to my scouts but upwards from me to National. I used to believe that Boy Scouts was some how different than other organizations--they sure get a lot of mileage out of nostalgia--but they seem, in my eyes, no different than other laudable organizations like the American Red Cross or United Way that became such a valued icon they lost their way.

Would you mind if I quote this for my research paper? This sums up one side of my argument far better than I could have. I’ll give credit of course.

[Tampa Turtle]

Would you mind if I quote this for my research paper? This sums up one side of my argument far better than I could have. I’ll give credit of course.

 

I'd be flattered. I hope I am wrong; just how I feel today. Ask me again in 5 or 10 years--God willing!

[Col. Flagg]

I'd be flattered. I hope I am wrong; just how I feel today. Ask me again in 5 or 10 years--God willing!

 

Reading the latest from our CSE (Chief Social Engineer ) I am afraid you are not wrong. If anything, it sums up the last 4.5 years wonderfully.

[CalicoPenn]

 

 

Did MORE members NOT request it? Absolutely!!! Using this statement is implying that a large number of members "requested" the change. It's disingenuous at best.

 

 

 

Do you have any proof of this or is this just based on the 10 or so people you asked in your Troop?

[Back Pack]

Do you have any proof of this or is this just based on the 10 or so people you asked in your Troop?

Weren’t there polls done? I remember reading in a few places that Boy Scouts did a few polls of members.

[David CO]

What the heck is (8) a 'Family Troop'?

 

If your unit eats out at Olive Garden, you are a family troop. If you prepare your own meals on a campfire, you are a Boy Scout troop.

Edited November 16, 2017 by David CO

[Col. Flagg]

Do you have any proof of this or is this just based on the 10 or so people you asked in your Troop?

 

 

Weren’t there polls done? I remember reading in a few places that Boy Scouts did a few polls of members.

 

Yes, there were two polls done about the 2013 and 2015 membership policy changes. In both polls the majority of respondents voted against changing BSA's membership policy. They have been discussed and quoted in this forum often enough. CalicoPenn knows darn well these polls exist and are not a figment of one's imagination. 

 

There were similar polls done by select councils about the girls in Scouting vote, but those results (not surprisingly) have not been release UNLESS they supported the BSA position. My own council did a poll and was touting over 1000 people responding. The results? Never announced, never published. In fact they simply don't talk about them. I know for a fact, though obviously cannot prove it, that the vote was overwhelmingly against. I suspect that's why the results were never announced. Why else hide them?

 

This is all fact and has been reported by BSA's own websites, councils and independent news outlets. Because the sources have already been posted here over the years, I am not going to go find them and repost just because someone cannot remember the debate.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[Tampa Turtle]

I think the majority of the vote was against but the electoral college passed it, or something like that. 

[CalicoPenn]

Yes, there were two polls done about the 2013 and 2015 membership policy changes. In both polls the majority of respondents voted against changing BSA's membership policy. They have been discussed and quoted in this forum often enough. CalicoPenn knows darn well these polls exist and are not a figment of one's imagination.   These polls were about gays in Scouting, not girls. Applying the results of these polls to the question of girls is a major stretch and rather disingenuous.

 

There were similar polls done by select councils about the girls in Scouting vote, but those results (not surprisingly) have not been release UNLESS they supported the BSA position. My own council did a poll and was touting over 1000 people responding. The results? Never announced, never published. In fact they simply don't talk about them. I know for a fact, though obviously cannot prove it, that the vote was overwhelmingly against. I suspect that's why the results were never announced. Why else hide them?  Thanks for admitting that you can't prove that what you know is a fact is actually a fact.  Thanks for admitting that I am right.

 

This is all fact and has been reported by BSA's own websites, councils and independent news outlets. Because the sources have already been posted here over the years, I am not going to go find them and repost just because someone cannot remember the debate.   If we were talking about the 2013 & 2015 polls in conjunction with the gays in Scouting controversy, I'd say it was fact.  Everything your claiming about what the polls say about Girls in Scouting is all conjecture on your part.

 

 

[RememberSchiff]

Okay then.

 

I think we agree this membership decision was made before the polls were conducted which makes the polls, flawed or otherwise, irrelevant. 

[Stosh]

If your unit eats out at Olive Garden, you are a family troop. If you prepare your own meals on a campfire, you are a Boy Scout troop.

 

When I was a kid, I family camped.  My parents prepared meals on a campfire all the time.  It was family camping.  When I went out with a group of uniformed boys that were friends, that was a Boy Scout troop.  It wasn't the campfire cooking that made the difference, it was defined by who was with me at the time.  A group of boys eating together in a restaurant could still be a Boy Scout troop.  We did it all the time when we traveled to an activity.

[NJCubScouter]

I really think that the BSA is using "family", in this context, as kind of a euphemism for "boys and girls."  I think that what a lot of people here are afraid of is that "family" means an intentional increase in the role of parents in the program.  I don't see any indication that that is the case.

[Stosh]

Then why don't the powers that are in the BSA be more honest and call it what it is.

[NJCubScouter]

Then why don't the powers that are in the BSA be more honest and call it what it is.

 

You'll have to ask them.  I agree that the BSA has not been as forthright about this whole thing as they should have been.  In fact I started a thread about it a few months ago - specifically about my council sending emails to local Scouters inviting them to the meetings where this subject was going to be discussed, and not mentioning that it involved increasing opportunities for girls in Scouting.  Other councils (though not all) did something similar.  And it was the people who attended those meetings who were "officially" invited to take the survey.  So, I'm with you.  But for myself, now that this is a done deal, I just don't see the point of complaining about it.  Others, of course, may complain as they wish.

 

What I was commenting on was this idea that some people have that the word "family" means a change in the program that involves a new role for parents, rather than just girls and young women.

Edited November 16, 2017 by NJCubScouter