OFFICIAL NEWS RELEASE: Girls as Youth Members, All Programs

[Jameson76]

Looking at the 2016 annual report it seems clear the BSA is in some financial trouble. The Summit continues to suck cash, our net insurance is costing $70m a year (vs $40m in 2015), we lost $28m in net cash from operations (vs $6m loss in 2015) and then read Note 9.... the lawsuits being filed could cause “ ...operational impact on our program.†Just 1 lawsuit filed in Oregon is suing BSA for $21m.

 

It appears we are selling assets and continuing to bond with the hope that Summit will take off and the we won’t lose these upcoming massive lawsuits. Our assets (think selling camps) will keep us afloat for a while until we sell too many and kill the program.

 

The discussion around girls joining has been around for decades. While I think it can be done with a positive impact and will do my best to recruit those interested while maintaining our Pack, I think the BSA chose to include them to boost membership and save the overall program. I highly doubt this was done altruistically. Either way, what’s done is done and I hope that we find some new energetic volunteers and scouts with this change. I’d like to see us adding camps, facilities and programs while being at a loss of how to handle all of these extra volunteers. Perhaps this change will lead us there. Hope springs eternal...

 

Good Lord the amount of cash dumped into the Summit is likely never to be known.  You know they are selling day passes and locals passes to the Summit for non Scouts to generate up some cash, right?  It is literally trying to do everything for everyone, sort of Disneyesque.  And it it hemorrhaging cash daily.

 

As we speak of surveys and market research, what crystal ball told them there was untapped and unfulfilled need for a high adventure base in WV?

[RememberSchiff]

Good Lord the amount of cash dumped into the Summit is likely never to be known.  You know they are selling day passes and locals passes to the Summit for non Scouts to generate up some cash, right?  It is literally trying to do everything for everyone, sort of Disneyesque.  And it it hemorrhaging cash daily.

 

As we speak of surveys and market research, what crystal ball told them there was untapped and unfulfilled need for a high adventure base in WV?

 

Experts, some with Disney park experience, were hired who promised the Summit would be financially sustainable. As I recall, their scout attendance predictions were more than double what the actual scout attendance numbers were.

Edited November 3, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[Tampa Turtle]

Experts, some with Disney park experience, were hired who promised the Summit would be financially sustainable. As I recall, their scout attendance predictions were more than double what the actual scout attendance numbers were.

 

"Too big to fail". It is now looking like a huge gamble that may not pay off. 

[Jameson76]

"Too big to fail". It is now looking like a huge gamble that may not pay off. 

 

If you wonder where the cash went or is in fact going, look at page 35 of the Annual Report (2016).  There is Note 5 which details Land, Building, and Equipment.  High Adventure bases (Philmont / Sea Base / Northern Tier) less accumulated depreciation of $28 million are on the books for $53 million

 

Summit less accumulated deprecation of $30 million is on the books for...wait for it....$364 million dollars.  Yes Summit is on the books for almost 7 TIMES the value of the other 3 High Adventure bases.  I find that concerning.  If BSA dumped that kind of cash and infrastructure there, just the debt service is ridiculous.  

[Jameson76]

If you wonder where the cash went or is in fact going, look at page 35 of the Annual Report (2016).  There is Note 5 which details Land, Building, and Equipment.  High Adventure bases (Philmont / Sea Base / Northern Tier) less accumulated depreciation of $28 million are on the books for $53 million

 

Summit less accumulated deprecation of $30 million is on the books for...wait for it....$364 million dollars.  Yes Summit is on the books for almost 7 TIMES the value of the other 3 High Adventure bases.  I find that concerning.  If BSA dumped that kind of cash and infrastructure there, just the debt service is ridiculous.  

 

Just for fun also note that in 2012 National Council issues debt to finance the development of the Summit, $175 MILLION in 10 Year tax exempt bonds.  There is a balloon payment of $136 MILLION in 2022.

 

Guess National will start admitting emotional support animals...for the right fee

[Tampa Turtle]

Just for fun also note that in 2012 National Council issues debt to finance the development of the Summit, $175 MILLION in 10 Year tax exempt bonds.  There is a balloon payment of $136 MILLION in 2022.

 

Guess National will start admitting emotional support animals...for the right fee

That is one big can kicked down the road...$136 million! I guess Jambo will pay for that...

[Jameson76]

That is one big can kicked down the road...$136 million! I guess Jambo will pay for that...

 

Assuming $100 profit from each attendee and with the Jamboree in 2021, would need 1,360,000 to attend.  That is doable

[Back Pack]

Here was an interesting article.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSBRE96E08B20130715

[RememberSchiff]

Assuming $100 profit from each attendee and with the Jamboree in 2021, would need 1,360,000 to attend.  That is doable

 

Maybe, the 2016 population of West Virginia is 1,831,102. Just change the West Virginia Constitution and require that all citizens attend.

[Col. Flagg]

If you wonder where the cash went or is in fact going, look at page 35 of the Annual Report (2016).  There is Note 5 which details Land, Building, and Equipment.  High Adventure bases (Philmont / Sea Base / Northern Tier) less accumulated depreciation of $28 million are on the books for $53 million

 

Summit less accumulated deprecation of $30 million is on the books for...wait for it....$364 million dollars.  Yes Summit is on the books for almost 7 TIMES the value of the other 3 High Adventure bases.  I find that concerning.  If BSA dumped that kind of cash and infrastructure there, just the debt service is ridiculous.  

 

Wasn't the original cost of the Summit around $400m? And they took out a bond too with the local county (or through the local county). Don't recall the cost of that but I cannot imagine they are even close to paying it off. Looking at the link above it appears they expected to gain 125m/yr in monies toward Summit payments. Does not look like that happened either.

 

If world jambo doesn't make huge money I suspect they will be near default on those bond payments.

 

Makes one wonder where all those donors who held out for BSA to change policy have gone. Didn't read any large income coming in from those sources still.

[Tampa Turtle]

Conspiracy Mode = *ON*

 

Back Pack, ever consider switching to a journalism major? I read this and thought 'BINGO' the girls inclusion, right or not, is hoping to bring in a LOT of new scouts QUICK to turn around a probable fiscal crunch. To meet those Summit bonds I think a lot of assets, especially land attractive to development may be sold off. Not sure how that will shake out at the Council level. 

 

GSUSA is looking at a huge pension deficit. A 2013 article said it was $300+ million and growing. Despite cookies. 

 

I can see both imploding and some sort of shotgun marriage of the two down the road from the shattered rump states of the boys and girls scouting kingdom. Maybe BSA is planning the long game and \figuring by opening up to girls will let them be the dominant partner. However GSUSA is a best selling 'Brand' as well.

 

While 2023 seems like a long way off it really is only 5 years as we are almost at 2018...about the time some of those girls would be getting those Eagles. Shame to shut that down...

 

Conspiracy Mode = *Off*

[skeptic]

IF, as what I have read regarding the Summit opening up to more than Scouts is accurate, and it draws, then what would stop a similar process at the other high adventure locations?  As long as the Scouts get first position in bookings, it would seem a viable option.  And, those properties I believe are more financially stable in that they have been in existence for a longer time.  

[Col. Flagg]

@@Tampa Turtle, is it really a conspiracy to think that BSA -- with severely declining membership, rising costs and mounting debt -- saw opening their membership as a way to increase revenue? There's only a limited number of (legal) ways for a business to increase revenue. Increase sales, increase membership, increase donations, increase membership dues, increase prices. Only the last two does BSA have any direct control over and we've already seen the cost of dues go up. I suspect you will see a rise in gear soon as well. I've already noticed much of the bling is $1-3 bucks more than it was just a few years ago (e.g., BSA neckerchief slide).

[Tampa Turtle]

Colonel Flagg: You're dumb Freedman, very dumb, but you've met your match in me!

[David CO]

Wasn't the original cost of the Summit around $400m? And they took out a bond too with the local county (or through the local county). Don't recall the cost of that but I cannot imagine they are even close to paying it off. 

 

I've always thought of the Summit as a luxury lodge for the senior execs, much like the exclusive retreat for generals in The Dirty Dozen.

 

My unit has never gone to any of these places. They are way beyond our budget.

 

I don't much like the idea of national raising our fees to pay for other peoples extravagances. I like even less the idea that national might have changed the membership policies in order to pay for it.

Edited November 3, 2017 by David CO