RememberSchiff Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 @@Back Pack Good luck on your mid terms. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 If I was asked to design a boy led organization it would be to elect national and regional youth leaders for a one year term. These scouts would determine governance, financial and program issues with the advice and counsel of trained adults...much like troops should be run. The BSA (meaning the corporation) is not a boy-led organization, nor was it ever intended to be. The same is true with the councils. Units are "owned" by the CO's, which also are not boy-led organizations. The BSA program with the largest number of units is Cub Scouts, and those units also are not boy-led. Troops are intended to be boy-led and Venture crews are intended to be youth-led. Boy-led is part of the programs in which it is age-level-appropriate, but it is not the governing principle of the organization. There is some youth representation in the councils and in National, which is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prof Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 It’s not a perfect solution but it beats a group of old guys who think they have their fingers on the pulse of what today’s youth really want. If anyone wonders what we talk about when adults aren’t around it’s how lame some things are that adults put out there for us to do. I kinda get where Backpack is coming from. BSA is a corporation, with adults in charge of the corporation. However, the boys are the customers and the program is the product. Making changes to the product without at least considering what the customer wants or needs is a recipe for problems (New Coke, for example). Some scouters were surveyed about these changes. Were any surveys conducted of the rank and file youth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Yes, Back Pack, good luck on your exams, even though you think people in their 50's are "old." Well, in a few months I won't be in my 50's anymore. Does that mean I will no longer be "old"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 I kinda get where Backpack is coming from. BSA is a corporation, with adults in charge of the corporation. However, the boys are the customers and the program is the product. Making changes to the product without at least considering what the customer wants or needs is a recipe for problems (New Coke, for example). Some scouters were surveyed about these changes. Were any surveys conducted of the rank and file youth? Um, so how many boys -- cubs especially -- pay their own dues? I mean, once upon a time, every meeting, I carried the quarter from my allowance to the treasurer/scribe, and then when I got Christmas/Birthday cash, I paid dues in advance. But, that doesn't happen in the units that I know these days. (Maybe 1 in 10 scouts, once they have jobs.) Furthermore, how many boys pay for gas? How many bother to even get out and wipe windows while their driver fills up on the way to camp? Besides a handbook and a few pamphlets, how much of the program do boys really own? If we follow the $, parents are BSA's customers. Now as a responsible scouter, I do try to integrate youths' opinions before I fill out a survey (or even reply to this blog). But, I also try to ehar from youth who dropped out or never joined the program in the first place. That stuff seems interesting. But, I think Backpack has a point. We all have enjoyed youth contributions to this forum. It would be nice to multiply that and have it intrinsic and transparent to BSA's business model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelpfulTracks Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) Yes, Back Pack, good luck on your exams, even though you think people in their 50's are "old." Well, in a few months I won't be in my 50's anymore. Does that mean I will no longer be "old"? You will have crossed over to ancient. ;-) Edited October 31, 2017 by HelpfulTracks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) You will have crossed over to ancient. ;-) It's increasingly starting to feel that way. After all, I did recently join the Ancient Association of Retired-and-non-retired Persons. Edited October 31, 2017 by NJCubScouter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelpfulTracks Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 It's increasingly starting to feel that way. After all, I did recently join the Ancient Association of Retired-and-non-retired Persons. Look at the bright side, you haven’t made it to the crypt keeper stage yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) Look at the bright side, you haven’t made it to the crypt keeper stage yet! Only from Back Pack's perspective. And speaking of Crypt Keeper, Happy Halloween to all. Edited October 31, 2017 by NJCubScouter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Yes, Back Pack, good luck on your exams, even though you think people in their 50's are "old." Well, in a few months I won't be in my 50's anymore. Does that mean I will no longer be "old"? All relative, to me, you would be young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 All relative, to me, you would be young. Thanks, I appreciate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 "Some scouters were surveyed about these changes. Were any surveys conducted of the rank and file youth?" Oh you silly boy!!! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelpfulTracks Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Sorry for the late reply...mid terms. Rather than quote everyone who replied I’ll address this question and please guilty to missing the old man humor going on here. If I was asked to design a boy led organization it would be to elect national and regional youth leaders for a one year term. These scouts would determine governance, financial and program issues with the advice and counsel of trained adults...much like troops should be run. Wide reaching changes in things like membership or program would be put to a referendum among registered youth. Adults would serve in the background like they should in Troops. The boys would run the show. Decisions like barring water balloons would have to meet a reasonableness test. In other words what logical reason would you bar a balloon based on its size but yet allow Scouts to play GaGa ball without pads and eye ware? (That’s youth humor) It’s not a perfect solution but it beats a group of old guys who think they have their fingers on the pulse of what today’s youth really want. If anyone wonders what we talk about when adults aren’t around it’s how lame some things are that adults put out there for us to do. Now that I am back at my computer I can sit down and reply (beyond the age quips I have hurled at NJCubScouter - but I am not too far behind him in age). Back Pack - I asked my question because I wanted to know your answer rather than assuming what you might write. And while I agree with you that we should certainly have more youth input, what you suggest has some drawbacks and some oversights. This thing we call Scouting was organized by a man who was in his 50's at the time. It had organic beginnings as youth and adults formed groups around the concepts of a book he wrote in his 40's. But ultimately BP organized, incorporated, nurtured and led the Scouting movement, staying involved well into his 80's. Scouting was intended to be youth-led, but NEVER youth run. Adults were always ultimately responsible and accountable. Scouting is a safe place for youth to fail - running an organization like BSA would not be so forgiving. Some specific concerns I have with your proposal. One year terms would make it difficult to have any level of continuity. Any program decided one year could easily be scuttled the next because there would be no one with "in-frame" context of the previous years debates, decisions and votes. Multi year terms would lead to younger and younger Scouts being elected, so "older youth" would be locked out. Youth would not be able to legally carry-on much of the business that BSA "corporation" needs to conduct. Having acted as an advisor for patrols, crews and OA, I can promise you that much advice given is not heeded, very often to the detriment of the Scout (see Safe place to fail above) which works fine for units, but not for the business world. Having been a youth once, I know that experience seems overrated, but standing here today I know differently. Experience is a great teacher, one of the very important lessons of Scouting. All of that said I applaud your desire to be more youth led and I would encourage you to push forward with the idea. Some of your ideas I agree with wholeheartedly. Perhaps you could help the youth organize an national youth board for BSA, so the youth voice can be heard more often and more clearly. You would certainly get resistance, but you would also learn a great deal, as would the youth that join you. You could also teach us old codgers are great deal as well. You would likely need to recruit adult champions to get National's attention, but If you succeeded then National would have more insight from their own members. I would certainly support that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmberMike Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 The latter pitch would have been trustworthy and brave and conducive to having a conversation with the membership about next steps; the former pitch is a lie. It's not a lie. It's wishful thinking maybe, creative marketing speak absolutely, but it's not quite a lie to omit the real reason for the new policy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocomax Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Is it a lie when BSA is asked "Is this change a result of the BSA’s declining membership numbers?" And the BSA answers: "No. The BSA has experienced renewed interest in Scouting, and we believe that is largely in response to program innovation and a more thorough understanding of what families want and need when it comes to extracurricular activities. In fact, recent surveys of parents not involved with Scouting showed high interest in getting their daughters signed up for programs like Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, with 90 percent expressing interest in a program like Cub Scouts and 87 percent expressing interest in a program like Boy Scouts." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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