OFFICIAL NEWS RELEASE: Girls as Youth Members, All Programs

[Tampa Turtle]

Boys? Best for the boys?

 

I do not think boys are the main focus of BSA anymore. Girls and single moms are more important to the BSA now.   The boys and scouters need to just accept that and be cheerful as they help the girls, single moms, and  families. 

 

Mrs Turtle's point all along is that does not seem to be part of the conversation at all. Maybe it is a strawman but GSUSA does not think the single-gender/mixed gender issue is.

[NJCubScouter]

Sorry, Son#2 turned in his Eagle notebook this week and Council approved . I just picked up his final Merit Badges for the sash for whenever the EBOR is after National reviews. I guess I was a little giddy. It was a hard week.

Congrats to Son #2!

[David CO]

I don't think that's what people are suggesting.

 

It's a case of looking at evidence, ie what has worked all around the world, in the majority of countries and cultures on every continent.

 

It still doesn't mean you have to do it because of that, it's simply a case of if you are considering it looking at the ample evidence that there is out there.

 

Of course that is what Mr. Greene is suggesting.

 

This is the same argument that has been used to promote socialized medicine, drug legalization, abortion, gay rights, and a whole slew of liberal social agendas. It is the argument of the left.

 

I am sure that Mr. Greene did not use this polarizing argument without understanding that it would raise red flags with just about any conservative who reads it. 

Edited October 28, 2017 by David CO

[Cambridgeskip]

Of course that is what Mr. Greene is suggesting.

 

This is the same argument that has been used to promote socialized medicine, drug legalization, abortion, gay rights, and a whole slew of liberal social agendas. It is the argument of the left.

 

I am sure that Mr. Greene did not use this polarizing argument without understanding that it would raise red flags with just about any conservative who reads it. 

No David.

 

Looking at evidence, when faced with a choice, considering what happened in similar situations and using that to help predict what might happen in different scenarios is the argument of logic, reason and science.

[Cambridgeskip]

Looking at other scouting programs to justify going co-ed presumes that co-ed is the preferred end point.  The debate isn't over whether co-ed can work but rather whether co-ed is the right option for the boys currently in the program and the impact it will have on them.

I disagree.

 

If you are going to look at action X, regardless of what you hope to achieve by action X, then looking at others who have already done action X and seeing what the outcomes of that for them were simply makes sense. It doesn't presume anything.

 

For example if you were to look at the likely outcome of lowering the speed limit on the road you would look at the outcome for other countries who did it. Doing so doesn't imply the desired outcome is anything. You might be looking at in terms of what reduces casualty rates in road traffic accidents. Yet the countries that you are looking at might have done it to reduce traffic congestion or reduce carbon emissions. Looking at their outcomes doesn't presume that you are looking to do either. What your desired outcome is is entirely down to you, it matters not one jot what others were trying to achieve who did it.

[qwazse]

Looking at other scouting programs to justify going co-ed presumes that co-ed is the preferred end point.  The debate isn't over whether co-ed can work but rather whether co-ed is the right option for the boys currently in the program and the impact it will have on them.

Not exactly.

Looking at other WOSM programs and ignoring the meteoric rise of scouts Pakistan presumes that co-Ed is the preferred endpoint.

 

Looking at home and seeing some charter orgs make square wheels roll to make their girls and boys scout together, and other potential COs looking for all-in-one turn down packs and troops, presumes BSA4G is the endpoint.

[Cubmaster Pete]

Just got word that our council summer camp sign up has been pushed back to revamp the registration to accommodate girls at Camp in the 2018 season which starts June 1.

 

So my council has recognized June 1 as the start date per their email.

[David CO]

No David.

 

Looking at evidence, when faced with a choice, considering what happened in similar situations and using that to help predict what might happen in different scenarios is the argument of logic, reason and science.

 

I am a Science teacher. I know Science. Mr. Greene is not making an argument based on evidence or Science.

 

The problem with his method of collecting "evidence" is that he only talked to the people who remained in the scouting program after going co-ed. He didn't talk to those who left.

 

It is like judging the effectiveness of a new medicine by looking only at those who survive the treatment.

Edited October 28, 2017 by David CO

[NJCubScouter]

Just got word that our council summer camp sign up has been pushed back to revamp the registration to accommodate girls at Camp in the 2018 season which starts June 1.

So my council has recognized June 1 as the start date per their email.

Are you talking about Cub Scouts? Is this summer day camp? Or a week-long summer resident camp for Cub Scouts? (Which as far as I know, does not exist.)

[cocomax]

Instead of making arguments about what is best come back to the real world and plan out what would be the best course of action to use the BSA brand to increase money flow to get the salary of the BSA CEO at national back up to $1,600,000 a year.

 

You have to think more like a well paid businessman that wants to keep the board happy so he can keep his job, maybe get a raise, after all that is who is making the decisions, not the volunteers.  

 

The Boy Scouts of America brand name is one of the best known brand names in the world so keep the name.

 

Increase membership fees from $24 to $33, that will bring in at least $18,000,000 more each year.  Now don't raise it too high we do not want too many scouters and scouts to quit over too high fees.

 

Bring in the girls, marketing research shows that only 10% of boys have any interest in Boy Scouts, but 90% of girls are interested joining cubs and 87% want to join boy scouts. That is almost a 900% growth rate!

 

BSA Quote:  "A recent surveys of parents not involved with Scouting showed high interest in getting their daughters signed up for programs like Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, with 90 percent expressing interest in a program like Cub Scouts and 87 percent expressing interest in a program like Boy Scouts.  Education experts also evaluated the curriculum and content and confirmed relevancy of the program for young women."

[HelpfulTracks]

Bring in the girls, marketing research shows that only 10% of boys have any interest in Boy Scouts, but 90% of girls are interested joining cubs and 87% want to join boy scouts. That is almost a 900% growth rate!

 

BSA Quote:  "A recent surveys of parents not involved with Scouting showed high interest in getting their daughters signed up for programs like Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, with 90 percent expressing interest in a program like Cub Scouts and 87 percent expressing interest in a program like Boy Scouts.  Education experts also evaluated the curriculum and content and confirmed relevancy of the program for young women."[/size]

I would urge caution on using that math. The BSA quote says “87% expressed INTEREST in a program LIKE†Boy Scouts.

 

I have not seen what question they asked or how it was answered. Let alone the sample size or methods. I’m not questioning anyone’s integrity, but the question may have simply been would you be interested in a program that develops character, citizenship and fitness, with no reference to how the program is delivered. I think most people would answer yes. But that question doesn’t show what degree of interest or how such a program would be delivered.

 

While I have no doubt the statement is accurate, without seeing the actual data and results, I am not sure what it really tells us.

[Chisos]

I would urge caution on using that math. The BSA quote says “87% expressed INTEREST in a program LIKE†Boy Scouts.

 

.

 

Exactly.  It will be interesting to see how many of those "interested parents" translate into "registered youth."  I know lots of "interested parents" right now, whose sons aren't in scouts, because of a variety of different (generally valid) reasons.

[Back Pack]

I was a Scout since 2009 and no one asked us who or what we wanted in our program. Wouldn’t it be nice if young men were elected to national office in scouting to make decisions for the rest of us under 21? It seems wrong to have guys in their 50s (no offense) to try to imagine what it’s like to be 15 these days. They can’t possibly understand that I don’t want my sister anywhere near my scouting activities. Ask my mom if it’s easier on her to drop off both of us at the same place or if she even cares. Every other day of the week we’re being shuttled across town. One more shuttle run won’t make a difference. Having my sister on the same camp out will certainly cause me to think hard about continuing in scouting.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Back Pack

[RememberSchiff]

I was a Scout since 2009 and no one asked us who or what we wanted in our program. Wouldn’t it be nice if young men were elected to national office in scouting to make decisions for the rest of us under 21? It seems wrong to have guys in their 50s (no offense) to try to imagine what it’s like to be 15 these days. They can’t possibly understand that I don’t want my sister anywhere near my scouting activities. Ask my mom if it’s easier on her to drop off both of us at the same place or if she even cares. Every other day of the week we’re being shuttled across town. One more shuttle run won’t make a difference. Having my sister on the same camp out will certainly cause me to think hard about continuing in scouting.

 

Wow 60's flashback. Old enough to fight, old enough to vote...And eventually the  26th Amendment.

[David CO]

I was a Scout since 2009 and no one asked us who or what we wanted in our program. Wouldn’t it be nice if young men were elected to national office in scouting to make decisions for the rest of us under 21? It seems wrong to have guys in their 50s (no offense) to try to imagine what it’s like to be 15 these days. They can’t possibly understand that I don’t want my sister anywhere near my scouting activities. Ask my mom if it’s easier on her to drop off both of us at the same place or if she even cares. Every other day of the week we’re being shuttled across town. One more shuttle run won’t make a difference. Having my sister on the same camp out will certainly cause me to think hard about continuing in scouting.

 

I have a hard enough time remembering what it is like to be 50, much less 15.