OFFICIAL NEWS RELEASE: Girls as Youth Members, All Programs

[RememberSchiff]

@@Venturing Lady welcome to scouter.com

[AltadenaCraig]

Here's a link to a rather interesting article which "Kim" posted over on Scoutmastercg.com:  http://www.scoutcollecting.co.uk/post-girls_in_scouting___when_did_it_all_begin.html

 

This UK article is dated 2013 and chronicles Robert Baden Powell's early thoughts on girls in scouting.  It features a 1908 letter (5 years before Girl Guides) from Baden Powell replying to a girl who wished to become a Scout:

I am glad to hear you are taking up scouting. I think there can be girl scouts just as well as boy scouts, and hope you will form a patrol, and let us know as yours will be the first girl scout patrol.

 

Most surprising (to me) is the picture from the 1909 "Scouting for Boys" which details uniform requirements ... for girls!

[dilrod]

In the interest of being friendly and courteous, I'll make a couple more points and then bow out of this discussion.

 

I think there is an underlying hope that this change will generate donations, by getting us back into the United Way or gaining corporate sponsorships.  

 

This won't earn us forgiveness and funding for what others perceive as our past sins of being sexist girl haters, just like the homosexual accommodations led to nothing.  Next God will have to go, then the militaristic uniforms, then the male oriented power structure and on and on...

 

I hope I'm wrong, because the people leaving are taking their dues and fundraising skills with them and many of us staying won't be able to find our checkbooks when the annual FOS shakedown comes around.   I doubt  if we will make these up with new members.

 

I plan to stick around and see how things develop.  I owe my boys as Den Leader to give them a good program.  When, not if, the Dens become co-ed I will reevaluate.

 

Best wishes to everyone, whatever you choose to do.

[CalicoPenn]

Unless you believe the mission of the BSA has been changed with this decision.  Then the appropriate, logical and mature response would be to resign gracefully and let the new leadership take the reigns.

 

From the BSA website:

 

The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

 

Before anyone tries to claim that the BSA must have changed their mission statement this year to admit girls, I have found references to this very mission statement back to 2011 and that's just a cursory search - it likely goes back much further - possibly to a time when girls were admitted to Exploring.

 

I see nothing in this decision by the Boy Scouts of America that changes their mission, as stated in their mission statement, unless someone wants to argue that girls are young people.

[skeptic]

@ dilrod: Again, what girl wants to tell her friends she's a BOY Scout??  

 

My daughter is a Venturer. During last year's class at the end of the year the students wrote down something most people didn't know about them. She wrote down that she is in Boy Scouts. No one guessed it was her. Not because she hid it, most of her friends knew she was involved and some of them had been in the past.  As a Venturing leader all of our females are proud to tell people they are in Boy Scouts.  Many are siblings of scouting brothers. Many of them have been at den meeting and put many volunteer hours at other's Eagle projects or scouting for food. We have brought coed youth to summer camp and the "camp" did not fall to pieces, in fact they welcomed us and encouraged us to attend again.

 

Venturing is either coed, all male or all female. The unit & CO make this decision.  I would imagine that is how the Troop will migrate to in  the future if coed troops become available. As far as hormones go I have been pleasantly surprised at how they police each other and discourage the boyfriend/girlfriend situation among each other in the unit. Not only that but the have each others backs and watch over each other, which is the way it should be. We have had to have frank discussions with our youth regarding expected behavior and they comply out of respect for the leadership. Youth protection is always followed.  

Now, why do you want to burden all the naysayers with simple logic and actual proof it can work?  Your point is exactly what the likely result will be over time and adjustments.  Those that are unaware of the cultural changes and vibrations, or choose to ignore them, will continue to bay at the changes and eventually leave or adjust.  There is really very little reason the program cannot work, other than an unwillingness to work it and make changes and tweaks as needed on the way.  B.P. turned to his wife to deal with the huge demand for girls to be in his program, and they built the Girl Guides which is still prominent there and around the world.  Here, Juliette Lowe chose to go off on her own, as she did not like the British plan, nor, from most accounts Olave either.  The point is that girls have wanted to do the program in some manner from its inception in England.  

[madscouter]

Sorry for my ignorance, but who are the people making these disastrous decisions about the BSA? Who do they answer to and how do we get rid of them? I think its time for a movement of scouts and scouters to take back this org.

If you think this is a good idea, I ask that you go back to its beginning and learn why Sir B. Powell created Boy Scouts. This is wrong and is only a way to devalue scouting.

[swilliams]

Agreed, and for those who point out you can still keep an all-boy Pack or Troop, please tell me how long you think that will last and how much volunteer input will influence the next round of changes.

 

It is indeed no longer BOY Scouts.  No girl wants to be a BOY scout.  Scouting USA, back after 40 years!

I completely disagree.  I have a Cub Scout and a Boy Scout, and I also have a daughter who has always wanted to be a Boy Scout.  I will fight for two things.  The first will be for my boys pack and troop to remain as is.  Boys only.  The second will be to get a pack together for all the girls in our area who, like my daughter, are not interested in what Girl Scouts has to offer.  Just because a parent has a daughter and wants them to have the same opportunities, that doesn't automatically mean that we want Boy Scouts to be anything different that it is for our boys. 

[Eagle94-A1]

I completely disagree.  I have a Cub Scout and a Boy Scout, and I also have a daughter who has always wanted to be a Boy Scout.  I will fight for two things.  The first will be for my boys pack and troop to remain as is.  Boys only.  The second will be to get a pack together for all the girls in our area who, like my daughter, are not interested in what Girl Scouts has to offer.  Just because a parent has a daughter and wants them to have the same opportunities, that doesn't automatically mean that we want Boy Scouts to be anything different that it is for our boys. 

 

But what if you cannot get enough interest,both girls and volunteers, to create separate all girl units? That's the dilemma

[numbersnerd]

Hehe. You might want to revisit your impression of Applebees and Olive Garden.

 

5 chains facing a tough year in 2017

http://www.nrn.com/sales-trends/5-chains-facing-tough-year-2017

 

Imagine this: You operate a bar and grill chain, and in a bid to generate customers, you convince franchisees to spend big dollars on a strategy to improve quality — and that effort fails.

This is what happened at Applebee’s, which launched an impressive strategy, with wood-fired grills and hand-cut steaks. But customers didn’t show up. Same-store sales

 

fell 5.2 percent in the third quarter, with traffic faring much worse.

 

-------------

 

Inside Olive Garden's incredible comeback [Olive Garden almost went bankrupt few years ago]

 

http://www.foodbusinessnews.net/articles/news_home/Financial-Performance/2016/04/Inside_Olive_Gardens_incredibl.aspx?ID=%7B632597FD-229F-44F5-B23C-82F1F9505381%7D

 

Key drivers of this performance include an improved guest experience delivered through proper staffing and the simplification of processes and procedures, culinary innovation that builds on the brand equities and flavor profiles that our loyal guests enjoy most, as seen with our successful flavor-filled pastas and create-your-own Tour of Italy promotions, and continuing to meet our guest needs for convenience with the national launch of large party catering delivery.

 

[in other words, Olive Garden realized that it had to CHANGE to meet the ever evolving consumer dynamics.]

 

More:

 

“At the end of the day, what we’re doing in LongHorn today is we’re removing some consumers, some guests from the guest base that we are confident that we weren’t making any money on,†Mr. Lee said. “And they were a consumer that was buying a low-end steak, coming in with a $5 coupon, and that was all happening while we had a 45-minute wait outside the restaurant, people waiting to get in to pay full price for more of a higher-end experience in casual dining steak. So, we’re transitioning the positioning slightly, and we believe this is the right place to be.â€

 

[So Olive Garden was willing to lose some existing customers in order to be more profitable. Do we sense a trend here?!?]

 

 

 

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No one knows what impact this will have on membership, either for existing members that leave or new members that are recruited. No survey can really tell you that in advance. But, just like Olive Garden, BSA seems to be willing to make a change that might result in the lose of some customers in order to make the business more profitable.

Both tried growth through expanding their offerings, ignoring their core appeal and strengths, and failed. Just like what BSA is now attempting. OG is paring back and refocusing on their strengths and is succeeding. Applebees only recently realized their mistake and are doing the same. Thanks for proving my point?

[numbersnerd]

While it is true that units and their CO can make the determination to remain boy-only, that membership composition is cancelled when co-ed units participate in events above the unit level. And so despite the desire to remain boy-only, units will be forced to either compromise their activities schedule or compromise the integrity of the boy-only composition. Those that think otherwise are willfully ignorant or naive.

 

Despite the stated course of action being single sex dens, when faced with inadequate leadership to execute the program effectively, co-ed dens will become the de facto organization despite the operating standards. And eventually BSA will codify this into their program. Those that think otherwise are willfully ignorant or naive.

 

Changes to the program will occur, thru execution or by design. The above two examples are only off the top of my head. It will happen, for expediency, convenience, appeasement, or it may already be decided but the announcement delayed. Those that think any of these outcomes are not in the future are again willfully ignorant or naive.

[WAKWIB]

I'm already watching the FB group of volunteers in my Council go bananas.  So is @@WAKWIB ...

I'm coming into this party really, really late, but since @@John-in-KC tagged me, I figure I would chime in.

Not much too say....it is what it is. National drops a load and we deal with it.  I am a fairly optimistic guy and think that it will work out. Forty years down the road, Scouting will still be around doing what it's doing today, pretty much like it was doing forty years ago . I understand all the concerns and complaints.  Honestly, I could rant about it louder and longer than anyone, but at the end of the day it would be sound and fury, signifying nothing.

 

BSA is a business. It will always make decisions to increase it's market share and improve it's bottom line.  For me the key to enjoying Scouting and doing the best for the youth I serve, is to try to put aside the previous two sentences. I consciously make an effort to put that whole "BSA is a business" thing into the same brain compartment that I would put thoughts of a root canal, or a case of hemorrhoids, because if I dwell on it, it just makes me pissed-off.

 

I find that my better nature in relation to the program comes out when I take interest in what the kids are doing and try to look at it through their eyes. They are experiencing so many of the things that I loved about Scouts when I was their age. The cold and snowy campouts, the great times at summer camp, the pride of a Court of Honor. etc, etc, etc...

 

It has been obvious for many years that girls have been underserved by other organizations tailored to them. I've heard it a thousand times. So have most of you folks. While it raises a lot of questions and concerns, including girls into our adventure program is a logical step. 

 

While I'm not nearly at the place where I'm doing enthusiastic back flips about this change in membership policy and programming, I'm willing to approach it in a kind and supportive way. In the end I hope to see young ladies truly getting into adventure and leadership development, positive adult mentoring, and discovering the right path of duty to God, Country, and Others.

Edited October 13, 2017 by WAKWIB

[njdrt-rdr]

So you want to keep your troop single gender. The change allows that. So nothing has changed. How has your troop been ruined by other troops in your town or across the country allowing girls? Was scouting ruined when Venturing went Co-ed? If so, why are you still here?

That right there lies the issue. While this change says troops will be single gender. I absolutely 1000% believe that while that may be the case right now, I don't trust the BSA. I don't believe the BSA. It will morph into co-ed troops and call me whatever you want. I got involved in boy scouts to work with my son and boys. Period. I have no desire to work with girls. I can tell you from my standpoint. I've spoken to 4 leaders and two committee people in my troop and they all hate the decision. I also hate how the BSA lies to us leaders. Yes I was given a presentation and took a survey and would told 100% without a doubt that this change was not decided. I was taking a survey to decide if a conversation should even take place about this topic...They were direct "this is about making scouting more accessible. This model of girl troops or boy troops does nothing for that directive and I'm just tired of listening to Bull crap. Are we just minions that they can lie to and they think we are stupid..That was a whopping 3 weeks ago. So it went from "Should we even discuss this topic" To it's a done deal in 3 weeks. While our council leaders stood in front of our room and said to our faces "absolutely no decisions have been made, we are deciding if we should even persue it". I call bull crap...Then I already spend 100's of hours a month volunteering for this organization for the last 10 years. They announce this change with no friggin plan in place and now I have to spend more of my time fielding answers to questions that I don't have answers to. I already am busier than a one legged man in a butt kicking contest, I don't need to be wasting my time on this subject. There should have been a plan in place and then it should have been announced. But us volunteers are here to pick up the mess and honestly I'm just tired of it. .Heck we were at roundtable last night and the roundtable leaders and the council exec couldn't even figure out if joining cubs in 2018 meant January, June or September...WTF....So yeah. I'm bitter and I'm pissed and I'm not part of the "WE" that asked for this.

[gblotter]

That right there lies the issue. While this change says troops will be single gender. I absolutely 1000% believe that while that may be the case right now, I don't trust the BSA. I don't believe the BSA. It will morph into co-ed troops and call me whatever you want. I got involved in boy scouts to work with my son and boys. Period. I have no desire to work with girls. I can tell you from my standpoint. I've spoken to 4 leaders and two committee people in my troop and they all hate the decision. I also hate how the BSA lies to us leaders. Yes I was given a presentation and took a survey and would told 100% without a doubt that this change was not decided. I was taking a survey to decide if a conversation should even take place about this topic...They were direct "this is about making scouting more accessible. This model of girl troops or boy troops does nothing for that directive and I'm just tired of listening to Bull crap. Are we just minions that they can lie to and they think we are stupid..That was a whopping 3 weeks ago. So it went from "Should we even discuss this topic" To it's a done deal in 3 weeks. While our council leaders stood in front of our room and said to our faces "absolutely no decisions have been made, we are deciding if we should even persue it". I call bull crap...Then I already spend 100's of hours a month volunteering for this organization for the last 10 years. They announce this change with no friggin plan in place and now I have to spend more of my time fielding answers to questions that I don't have answers to. I already am busier than a one legged man in a butt kicking contest, I don't need to be wasting my time on this subject. There should have been a plan in place and then it should have been announced. But us volunteers are here to pick up the mess and honestly I'm just tired of it. .Heck we were at roundtable last night and the roundtable leaders and the council exec couldn't even figure out if joining cubs in 2018 meant January, June or September...WTF....So yeah. I'm bitter and I'm pissed and I'm not part of the "WE" that asked for this.

The story was the same in our council. I have to believe our local council execs were lied to as well. They would not knowingly deceive us in this way. I have some connections in the upper realms of BSA, and am going to ask for an explanation of the lies we were told. I am confident this deception was orchestrated by national BSA leaders. Heads should roll over this and jobs should be lost. This kind of dishonesty is unbecoming of any organization, but especially the Boy Scouts of America.

[Hawkwin]

Excerpt from an email from our DC:

 

On a personal note, I believe this is a change that was long overdue. The scouting program provides such an excellent opportunity to help our youth develop their Duty to God and Country, Duty to Self, and Duty to Others. While I respect the many programs that are available to girls, I am very excited to see the BSA extend these programs. I cannot wait to see the first female eagle scout in Hou Koda!!!

 

[njdrt-rdr]

The story was the same in our council. I have to believe our local council execs were lied to as well. They would not knowingly deceive us in this way. I have some connections in the upper realms of BSA, and am going to ask for an explanation of the lies we were told. I am confident this deception was orchestrated by national BSA leaders. Heads should roll over this and jobs should be lost. This kind of dishonesty is unbecoming of any organization, but especially the Boy Scouts of America.

And for me personally it's really hard to want to be associated and donate my personal time and money to an organization where the leaders can't even follow the first point in their own scout law.