OFFICIAL NEWS RELEASE: Girls as Youth Members, All Programs

[cocomax]

We had a Mom (prob about 40+)  join our AT Crew this summer and did 50+ miles over 4-1/2 days. Included 3,000' ascent in one morning. She said it was hard but did it. I have seen many, many Scouters who seem to struggle from walking to the parking area to Dining Hall. 

 

Great to hear about the 50 miler mom, I hope the girls will be able to find lots of moms like that when the time comes. 

 

I know of one boy scout troop where all the adult male leaders are easily over 300 pounds each. . . and that troop does not ever hike.  

[David CO]

David, I think you might be using some very old data.

 

Your profile states "Chicago area."

 

Starting salary for Chicago public schools is over $50,000 a year, not $22,000.

 

https://www.nctq.org/districtPolicy/contractDatabase/district.do?id=4

 

Coach pay varies based but a head coach gets an extra $6000 a year, not $800 (page 355).

 

https://www.nctq.org/docs/CTU_Contract_2015-2019_FINAL.pdf

 

 

Not winning lottery money but certainly better than poverty level.

 

 

 

Hawkwin

Married to a HS teacher that does extracurricular work

 

Sorry about the -1. It was a mistake. My computer screen bounces around sometimes, and the -1 is too close and directly above the quote button. There is no way for me to remove it. My apologies. 

 

If you look back at my post, you will see that I was talking about the Catholic school system. Yes, the public schools pay a lot more than the Catholic schools. We also get paid less in the boonies than in the city.

 

I don't know if you would consider my teaching salary to have been in the poverty level, but I did qualify for food stamps for a few years. I never made more than $40,000. I couldn't have made ends meet without a second income in the family.

 

I identify very closely with all the blue collar families in scouting who simply can't afford all the cost increases.

Edited October 30, 2017 by David CO

[skeptic]

In regard to the council level executive boards, few have any substantial attendance from COR's.  If all the COR's attended consistently, you might see many councils run very differently, as the COR's would outnumber the appointed members.

[David CO]

In regard to the council level executive boards, few have any substantial attendance from COR's.  If all the COR's attended consistently, you might see many councils run very differently, as the COR's would outnumber the appointed members.

 

No, the execs would still be running the show. The units don't show up because they have learned from experience that it just doesn't do any good. It is a waste of time. 

Edited October 30, 2017 by David CO

[skeptic]

No, the execs would still be running the show. The units don't show up because they have learned from experience that it just doesn't do any good. It is a waste of time. 

Not necessarily true.  But it does take a group effort on the COR level to make serious changes.  I have seen it happen in our council when an exec pushed on the wrong sacred cow, the local camp. Years ago, a major So Cal council had an uprising by COR's and they fired the executive and his assistant.  That one was led by a district Scouter in an outlying district that felt they were getting the short straw most of the time.  It happened he had the resources to contact most of the COR's, not only in his district, but the whole very large council.  So, it does happen, but it takes initiative and perseverance.

[DuctTape]

In my local hiking club, there are just as many(if not more) 30-50 year old women as there are men. On my non-scouting hackpacking trips, I usually have more women than men join me. The trip coordinator for another backpacking club I belong to is a woman. I get just as many groans and excuses from dads as I do moms. The men have no monopoly on being lazy and out of shape.

[EmberMike]

...So the big deal is families and convenience etc etc.  One stop shopping, all these millions of people itching to join if only...

 

For Cubs - Let's assume the family has 2 kids Tim in 4th grade and Tina in 2nd grade.  Going on the current plan of NOT COED but assuming the pack has Male and Female dens, poor old mom will only have 1 meeting per month that will be coordinated.  The Den meetings will likely be at separate times...

 

...Do not see how this will be easier on the under served family than current setup.

 

I'm not sure that anyone with any experience in the orgainzation ever truly believed that this was going to be some big time-saver for families. It was all just the happier story to tell. The true story, the one about a BSA that has lost half of it's membership in the past 2 decades and faces the very real possibility that in another 2 decades it might not exist at all, and that this is a last-ditch effort to boost membership and save the Boy Scouts of America, that's not as much of a fun story to tell. 

 

I don't like how the BSA spins things, how they engineered this survey to get the talking points they wanted. But a (small) part of me does get why they do this insted of telling people "Hey, we're dying over here, and we just hope we can get enough girls into this thing to maybe save it from extinction." I don't think there's a CSE in the history of the organization that would have wanted to make that announcement. So this is what we get instead, tales of the over-extended mom and dad, and how co-ed scouting will save their hectic schedules. 

[David CO]

In my local hiking club, there are just as many(if not more) 30-50 year old women as there are men. On my non-scouting hackpacking trips, I usually have more women than men join me. The trip coordinator for another backpacking club I belong to is a woman. I get just as many groans and excuses from dads as I do moms. The men have no monopoly on being lazy and out of shape.

 

Yep, Sadie Hawkins Day is coming up. The women are getting ready.

[ianwilkins]

But a (small) part of me does get why they do this instead of telling people "Hey, we're dying over here, and we just hope we can get enough girls into this thing to maybe save it from extinction."

Yup, marketing 101.

 

Most people won't know how much it's shrunk, but it's still large in the public consciousness.

 

We have the same thing over here, at a very local level, one group will say "we've got no leaders, we need some leaders to step up to the plate or we close", sad faces of cubs in the paper. Tumbleweed blows, and you can just hear the sound of a distant bell. Meanwhile the group down the road is turning kids away and have plenty (well, enough anyway) of adults as it's all "yeah woo! look at all the stuff we do and the fun we have!"

 

So yes, sell it as "girls want to join this amazing thing" not "crikey if we don't get someone in soon it's game over man, game over"

[DuctTape]

In my local hiking club, there are just as many(if not more) 30-50 year old women as there are men. On my non-scouting hackpacking trips, I usually have more women than men join me. The trip coordinator for another backpacking club I belong to is a woman. I get just as many groans and excuses from dads as I do moms. The men have no monopoly on being lazy and out of shape.

  

Yep, Sadie Hawkins Day is coming up. The women are getting ready.

I do not understand your reply to my point that there are very many women who actively engage in outdoor activities such as hiking, camping and backpacking.

[RememberSchiff]

We appear to have a humor gap here.

 

I did like the Sadie Hawkins Day joke. Nov 15?

[Tampa Turtle]

We appear to have a humor gap here.

 

I did like the Sadie Hawkins Day joke. Nov 15?

I got it. I think that is not much of a 'thing' anymore. 

[walk in the woods]

I'm not sure that anyone with any experience in the orgainzation ever truly believed that this was going to be some big time-saver for families. It was all just the happier story to tell. The true story, the one about a BSA that has lost half of it's membership in the past 2 decades and faces the very real possibility that in another 2 decades it might not exist at all, and that this is a last-ditch effort to boost membership and save the Boy Scouts of America, that's not as much of a fun story to tell. 

 

I don't like how the BSA spins things, how they engineered this survey to get the talking points they wanted. But a (small) part of me does get why they do this insted of telling people "Hey, we're dying over here, and we just hope we can get enough girls into this thing to maybe save it from extinction." I don't think there's a CSE in the history of the organization that would have wanted to make that announcement. So this is what we get instead, tales of the over-extended mom and dad, and how co-ed scouting will save their hectic schedules. 

 

The latter pitch would have been trustworthy and brave and conducive to having a conversation with the membership about next steps; the former pitch is a lie.

[HelpfulTracks]

The latter pitch would have been trustworthy and brave and conducive to having a conversation with the membership about next steps; the former pitch is a lie.

I see a link between the two. Over the last 2-3 years I have heard/been in many conversations about adding girls to the program. Most of those conversations did not include professionals, a few more included higher level local volunteers.

 

Over the last year more and more of those conversations included the pros and higher level volunteers. I would estimate that 75-80% of those conversations included th concept that if we open the program to girls then we will get more boys because the family has one program that serves them both. Part of that argument was always about declining numbers and why. But the answer was always we grow if the family can bring all of their siblings. We can debate if that will in fact prove true. But I wouldn’t call it a lie.

 

In fact there are numerous arguments for and against adding girls to the program, and most people approach the current policy with one, maybe two, of those positions as their primary argument.

[Back Pack]

Back Pack, how do you see that being structured and operated? I’m curious because I am always interested in being more boy-led, but there are issues I am struggling to see how, what I think you are proposing, working.

Sorry for the late reply...mid terms.

 

Rather than quote everyone who replied I’ll address this question and please guilty to missing the old man humor going on here.

 

If I was asked to design a boy led organization it would be to elect national and regional youth leaders for a one year term. These scouts would determine governance, financial and program issues with the advice and counsel of trained adults...much like troops should be run. Wide reaching changes in things like membership or program would be put to a referendum among registered youth. Adults would serve in the background like they should in Troops. The boys would run the show. Decisions like barring water balloons would have to meet a reasonableness test. In other words what logical reason would you bar a balloon based on its size but yet allow Scouts to play GaGa ball without pads and eye ware? (That’s youth humor)

 

It’s not a perfect solution but it beats a group of old guys who think they have their fingers on the pulse of what today’s youth really want. If anyone wonders what we talk about when adults aren’t around it’s how lame some things are that adults put out there for us to do.