OFFICIAL NEWS RELEASE: Girls as Youth Members, All Programs

[Hawkwin]

While your statement is true, there will also be changes to the program outside of individual unit membership. Ignore that at your peril. Fundamental changes to an effective program rarely result in any degree of success. THAT is what I believe many are afraid of. And rightly so.

 

What changes to the program do you envision that will be so terrible? The first question I asked of the UK scouters is what they changed about the program when they allowed girls. Their response was "nothing."

 

Regardless, BSA is CONSTANTLY making changes to the program. Merit badges are retired, new ones are created. Number of campout nights are changed, etc. etc.

 

Just what do you think will change with the inclusion of girls? Please be specific.

[RememberSchiff]

@@gblotter welcome to scouter.com

[Back Pack]

Ridiculous, considering nothing has actually changed yet. Best of luck to them wherever they are going.

Why is it ridiculous? Something they’ve been a part of is changing. If it went the other way and girls were denied entrance to scouts would you call anyone who quit ridiculous? Probably not. Standing up for something you’ve been a part of your whole life, even if you’re 17, shouldn’t be considered ridiculous.

[Hawkwin]

 

First - there were internal surveys done.  If they were overwhelmingly against, this decision might have been different - if they were anywhere in the 50/50 to 60/40 range, it probably wouldn't have changed anything.

 

The BSA is a business - it may be non-profit - but it is a business.  National's interest is NOT the same as individual unit's interests - it hasn't been for decades.  Its biggest motivator is membership - that's why you see so many statistics about membership numbers.  Without members, the organization will sputter out and eventually die.  Any organization that does not change eventually suffers from entropy and withers away.  I've been repeating this every since I've been here - like all businesses, the BSA has to adapt in order to remain relevant - not to its current customers but to attract new customers.  What is happening here is very much like what happens with commercial businesses all the time.  Think of it like this - you have a favorite restaurant and you have a favorite menu item.  The restaurant never changes its menu and over time, fewer and fewer people go to the restaurant - so the restaurant changes a bunch of menu items - keeping some of the old menu items but eliminating a bunch of others.  Let's say they eliminate your favorite menu item so you decide to stop going.  You're now thinking that the restaurant is kind of stupid because they're now losing customers except the restaurant, though wishing you would stay, is also betting that for every customer that leaves because of the menu changes, they gain 2 or 3 or more new customers who like the new menu. Ummm, ask Applebee's how that worked for them. Ask Olive Garden how that worked for them. Some of the most successful restaurants (traffic and margin) operate on an unchanging and limited menu model. Tell them they need to change to keep up with the times. They'll laugh in your face.

 

The BSA is betting that they'll gain more members than they lose.  Is that a wise bet?  Only time will tell - but the BSA has to try something - the current configuration isn't sustainable in the long term for the changes that society is going through. But successful businesses also make sure to move in ways that minimizes customer defection. Business 101. Cheaper to retain than acquire. Instead of building on it's core strengths, BSA has decided to actively alienate a sizable portion of the existing customer base by chasing an undetermined population size with existing competition in that space. People get fired for less.

 

 

 

Hehe. You might want to revisit your impression of Applebees and Olive Garden.

 

5 chains facing a tough year in 2017

http://www.nrn.com/sales-trends/5-chains-facing-tough-year-2017

 

Imagine this: You operate a bar and grill chain, and in a bid to generate customers, you convince franchisees to spend big dollars on a strategy to improve quality — and that effort fails.

This is what happened at Applebee’s, which launched an impressive strategy, with wood-fired grills and hand-cut steaks. But customers didn’t show up. Same-store sales

fell 5.2 percent in the third quarter, with traffic faring much worse.

 

-------------

 

Inside Olive Garden's incredible comeback [Olive Garden almost went bankrupt few years ago]

 

http://www.foodbusinessnews.net/articles/news_home/Financial-Performance/2016/04/Inside_Olive_Gardens_incredibl.aspx?ID=%7B632597FD-229F-44F5-B23C-82F1F9505381%7D

 

Key drivers of this performance include an improved guest experience delivered through proper staffing and the simplification of processes and procedures, culinary innovation that builds on the brand equities and flavor profiles that our loyal guests enjoy most, as seen with our successful flavor-filled pastas and create-your-own Tour of Italy promotions, and continuing to meet our guest needs for convenience with the national launch of large party catering delivery.

 

[in other words, Olive Garden realized that it had to CHANGE to meet the ever evolving consumer dynamics.]

 

More:

 

“At the end of the day, what we’re doing in LongHorn today is we’re removing some consumers, some guests from the guest base that we are confident that we weren’t making any money on,†Mr. Lee said. “And they were a consumer that was buying a low-end steak, coming in with a $5 coupon, and that was all happening while we had a 45-minute wait outside the restaurant, people waiting to get in to pay full price for more of a higher-end experience in casual dining steak. So, we’re transitioning the positioning slightly, and we believe this is the right place to be.â€

 

[So Olive Garden was willing to lose some existing customers in order to be more profitable. Do we sense a trend here?!?]

 

 

 

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No one knows what impact this will have on membership, either for existing members that leave or new members that are recruited. No survey can really tell you that in advance. But, just like Olive Garden, BSA seems to be willing to make a change that might result in the lose of some customers in order to make the business more profitable.

[Hawkwin]

Unfortunately, "showrooms" might be the correct term here. There's a growing problem at my council camp with boys pulling open shower curtains and taking pictures. Unfortunately the perpetrators are seldom apprehended or punished.

 

Fortunately, recent membership policy changes will diminish this type of behavior, right?

 

Wow. That is like the exact example given in YPT - and the adult leaders have done nothing?!?

 

They are #$ lucky it was not my kid that was sexually assaulted in such a manner.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Hawkwin

[RememberSchiff]

Okay the debating teachers are eating at Applebee's or Olive Garden.

 

Let's stay on topic.

[Hawkwin]

Why is it ridiculous? Something they’ve been a part of is changing. If it went the other way and girls were denied entrance to scouts would you call anyone who quit ridiculous? Probably not. Standing up for something you’ve been a part of your whole life, even if you’re 17, shouldn’t be considered ridiculous.

 

I was previously a member of the 82nd Airborne Division, 1/504 Parachute Infantry Regiment. Obviously all male.

 

Now, we have female fighter pilots and female Rangers (a privilege I did not seek). I also was against some of those changes - especially female Rangers as I didn't think it would work - that they would lower the standards. Turns out I was wrong.

 

What makes it "ridiculous" [i would say silly and illogical] is quitting before any of us have any idea what it will look like. Why would anyone make a rational decision to leave an organization that they have loved for decades when they don't even know what changes we will experience? Sure, those that oppose this change have some strong assumptions about the negative impacts but if you are a rational decision-maker, the correct thing to do would be to wait and see the actual results. 

 

If you are playing baseball and you are losing in the 9th inning, do you quit and go home before the last pitch?

If you are playing football and you face 4th and long and you are down by 5 points, do you quit and go home before the last play?

If you are playing poker and got checked on the big blind, do you fold before the flop?

 

We don't know the results. We do have many other examples throughout other 1st world countries where they made it work. If you care about the mission of BSA, then the appropriate, logical, and mature response, even if you oppose this change, is to wait and see the results. To quit now before anything actually changes is little more than a temper tantrum being used to try and tell BSA they are wrong.

[Saltface]

Wow. That is like the exact example given in YPT - and the adult leaders have done nothing?!?

 

They are #$ lucky it was not my kid that was sexually assaulted in such a manner.

 

It's probably enough of a problem everywhere that they used it as the example (I may have conflated the two, my SPL might not have said anything about cameras). If they could have identified the perp, I would have reacted the same way as you.

[walk in the woods]

 

... If you care about the mission of BSA, then the appropriate, logical, and mature response, even if you oppose this change, is to wait and see the results. To quit now before anything actually changes is little more than a temper tantrum being used to try and tell BSA they are wrong.

Unless you believe the mission of the BSA has been changed with this decision.  Then the appropriate, logical and mature response would be to resign gracefully and let the new leadership take the reigns.

[Sentinel947]

Why is it ridiculous? Something they’ve been a part of is changing. If it went the other way and girls were denied entrance to scouts would you call anyone who quit ridiculous? Probably not. Standing up for something you’ve been a part of your whole life, even if you’re 17, shouldn’t be considered ridiculous.

They are standing up for not allowing girls to join a troop down the street. Nothing stops them from keeping their troop exactly as it currently is. Venturing females are already present on camp staff and camporees, so I think its ridiculous because its a knee jerk reaction to something that doesn't have a tangible impact on them right now, or potentially at all. In short, they have thrown away something they enjoyed for absolutely nothing.

 

If it was mandatory co-ed, I wouldn't find their decision ridiculous at all.

 

I'm not trying to insult them, but I think they made a hasty decision that the situation doesn't call for yet.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Sentinel947

[sierracharliescouter]

To those of you who are opposed to girls joining BSA, I have to ask:

 

Which of these do not apply equally to what we hope for girls to become as well as boys?

Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean and Reverent.

 

At the Cub level, the worst that I could see happening is the boys acting a little more mature when they're around the girls. With proper supervision, that is hopefully what would happen at the Boy Scout level too.

 

Some of the "let the boys be boys" attitude is what is has resulted in a bunch of other ugly headlines in the news in the last few days.

[hicountry]

Just a few thoughts from a former SM who left in 2011 when his youngest aged out.......(Just had last scout who started under my scoutmastership make eagle so I am reminded to drop by here on occasion)

 

1.....Scouting USA in the 70's worked so well didn't it ? Apparently some haven't learned from that and want to try again

 

2.....My major reason for burn out when in scouts was dealing with the adults, the mothers were by far the worst. Thankfully they were not at the campouts messing things up, whining and interjection obtuse ideas and demands. There is no way on gods green earth I would have anything to do with family camping in this day of mandatory fairness, helicopter parenting, entitlement and the world revolves around me and my kid attitudes. 

 

3....Two deep, YPT and program related issues are going to create many messes.

 

4....Boy Scouts are for boys to work with other boys on man things, this latest change destroys that dynamic

 

5....We all know this was only done as a cheap fix by national to prop up declining numbers. They want to keep their kingdom of paid scouters and all the things that gobble up money so they sell their souls for numbers/bucks. Great example they make.

 

6.....Girls are wanting into boy scouts but I haven't heard the public or media opine for allowing boys into girl scouts. Why is that ?

 

7....What is wrong with the existence of organizations that have their own membership standards and others seem to feel the need to force their way in ? If I have a house party and invite some of the neighbors do the uninvited neighbors have any right to force their way in too ? Same thing with BSA caving to allow in the perverts and trannys, afraid of lawsuits while the kooky left feels they have to infiltrate and destroy organizations where people who don't agree with their cause congregate.

 

And the BSA who have become so bloated and corporate like top heavy are so tied to the mighty dollar and protecting their fiefdom that what they stand for is open to re-interpret or sell off. Simply disgusting.

 

I have nothing against girls, they probably would do quite well in BSA, but that is the minor problem, the devils is in the details and BSA has proven again they can't be trusted. If my boys have sons and want activities in the scouting years it will be 4h or trail life or school sports or whatever. It is now scouting USA, Boy scouts is gone.

[Venturing Lady]

@ dilrod: Again, what girl wants to tell her friends she's a BOY Scout??  

 

My daughter is a Venturer. During last year's class at the end of the year the students wrote down something most people didn't know about them. She wrote down that she is in Boy Scouts. No one guessed it was her. Not because she hid it, most of her friends knew she was involved and some of them had been in the past.  As a Venturing leader all of our females are proud to tell people they are in Boy Scouts.  Many are siblings of scouting brothers. Many of them have been at den meeting and put many volunteer hours at other's Eagle projects or scouting for food. We have brought coed youth to summer camp and the "camp" did not fall to pieces, in fact they welcomed us and encouraged us to attend again.

 

Venturing is either coed, all male or all female. The unit & CO make this decision.  I would imagine that is how the Troop will migrate to in  the future if coed troops become available. As far as hormones go I have been pleasantly surprised at how they police each other and discourage the boyfriend/girlfriend situation among each other in the unit. Not only that but the have each others backs and watch over each other, which is the way it should be. We have had to have frank discussions with our youth regarding expected behavior and they comply out of respect for the leadership. Youth protection is always followed.  

[mashmaster]

Unfortunately, "showrooms" might be the correct term here. There's a growing problem at my council camp with boys pulling open shower curtains and taking pictures. Unfortunately the perpetrators are seldom apprehended or punished.

 

Fortunately, recent membership policy changes will diminish this type of behavior, right?

Showerooms.  I miss 2 letters and totally different meaning.   The room is a locking door with a commode, sink, and shower.  Nothing else.  No way to do the pictures like you mention.

 

I don't think recent membership changes will affect the behavior in either way.  IMHO.  

[mashmaster]

Why is it ridiculous? Something they’ve been a part of is changing. If it went the other way and girls were denied entrance to scouts would you call anyone who quit ridiculous? Probably not. Standing up for something you’ve been a part of your whole life, even if you’re 17, shouldn’t be considered ridiculous.

Did they storm out when Venturing allowed girls?  Life evolves, no matter what it is, it evolves.  Standing up for exclusion has been proven wrong in history over and over again.