Going Back to Cubs

[Eagle94-A1]

Well my troop situation is mixed. Problems we've had in the past have gotten better when we switched to traditional patrols. Older Scouts have taken the responsibility and are going with it. Are there challenges with them as leaders? Sure, it's to be expected. But the challenges we had are no more.

 

The challenges we have now are the new batch of helicopter parents and the new Scouts. New Scouts are not taking responsibility for their actions, and the parents are still treating them as Cub Scouts. My middle son, who crossed over in January was the one commenting on the new batch we got in April.  Thankfully he talked to the SM about the situation during his Tenderfoot SMC.

 

Anyway, my chat with him got me thinking, the Webelos coming from the feeder pack tend to leave and not stick around. I know the comments from the group  that joined when my oldest joined was that "it was too much work" and "I want to have fun on campouts, not cook and do KP." And this has repeated multiple times. It's as if the leadership with the pack is not making Webelos the transition to Boy Scouts it should be. 

 

I know Den Chiefs would be a great solution. Problem is the pack  meets on the same nite as the troop. I'm thinking about going back to Cubs in the fall, and start working with the troop's feeder pack to get them better aclimated prior to becoming Boy Scouts. It seems as if both parents and Cubs are getting rude awakenings when the cross over.

[qwazse]

Shame. The revised AoL program has worked pretty well in getting parents crossing over comfortable with life in our troop.

The boys ran the CoH nicely, and I think they made a good impression.

 

Certainly the DC's could be excused to perform duties at the pack meetings? Or do the dens only meet on that night as well?

[Stosh]

@Eagle94-A1 What you are talking about is what I did for one of my WB ticket items.  It worked well, the 6 boys that crossed over, stayed in a patrol throughout their scouting careers (1 left the area) but all 6 of them stayed with Scouting and Eagled, including the one that moved away.  It does work, but parents can be a pain.  I was an ASM at the time so the SM took all the heat for what I was doing.  Worked out great for me.

 

Recently we invited Webelos boys from all the packs in the area and the Scout Troop runs the AoL program for them.  Those that chose to stay with us have been good scouts and the new parents have been supportive of the boy-led issue and have supported it by staying close, but not too close.  Those that went to other troops, we did not follow up.

[David CO]

Not every boy who enjoys Cub Scouts will like Boy Scouting. They are two very different experiences.

 

I wouldn't put too much blame on the Webelos leaders. Boys know their own minds. You can't transition them into a program or activity they simply don't like.

 

If a boy thinks camping is too much work, move on, you've lost him.  Boy Scouting is for boys who think camping is fun.

Edited October 9, 2017 by David CO

[Eagle94-A1]

Shame. The revised AoL program has worked pretty well in getting parents crossing over comfortable with life in our troop.

The boys ran the CoH nicely, and I think they made a good impression.

 

Certainly the DC's could be excused to perform duties at the pack meetings? Or do the dens only meet on that night as well?

 

Getting the adults more comfortable with leaving their sons alone is the biggest reason. I've had some dealings with helicopter parents (remember Gunship) but this last batch takes the cake. They have allowed their sons to sneak back into their tents or shelters when afraid. They have attempted to take over doing cooking and kp with the excuse "their doing it wrong." One parent has complained about the adults being too hard on their Scout for taking responsibility for packing, setting up and taking down for camp. And one parent will not let the Scout go camping without them.

 

But also to get the kids use to doing things on their own. Because the way the new requirements are written, i.e. camping is not required for some thing, just being in the outdoors or building/setting up things counts, and the "Do Your Best" and get signed off mentality, some of these folks never set up a tent on their own prior to being a Boy Scout.  At last year's Survival camp out which helped with their Castaway, none of this den's Webelos stayed overnight, and the shelter was primarily done by the parents. The kids added a few leaves or branches, the parents did the rest. None ever cooked or did KP before jing the troop. Heck, none ever camped with the troop, despite an open invitation to any and all campouts they can go on.

 

 

@Eagle94-A1 What you are talking about is what I did for one of my WB ticket items.  It worked well, the 6 boys that crossed over, stayed in a patrol throughout their scouting careers (1 left the area) but all 6 of them stayed with Scouting and Eagled, including the one that moved away.  It does work, but parents can be a pain.  I was an ASM at the time so the SM took all the heat for what I was doing.  Worked out great for me.

 

Recently we invited Webelos boys from all the packs in the area and the Scout Troop runs the AoL program for them.  Those that chose to stay with us have been good scouts and the new parents have been supportive of the boy-led issue and have supported it by staying close, but not too close.  Those that went to other troops, we did not follow up.

 

That's what I'm hoping. Unfortunately I know I will be dealing with the parents because of the SM's schedule. Last 2 camp outs he was there only for a few hours due to work. While some issues he could address, most cannot. 

 

 

Not every boy who enjoys Cub Scouts will like Boy Scouting. They are two very different experiences.

 

I wouldn't put too much blame on the Webelos leaders. Boys know their own minds. You can't transition them into a program or activity they simply don't like.

 

If a boy thinks camping is too much work, move on, you've lost him.  Boy Scouting is for boys who think camping is fun.

 

I agree, Boy Scouts is not for everyone. I do not think my youngest will stay in the program. But I hope I am wrong. But it seems as if the Cross Overs believe Boy Scouts will be a continuation of Cub Scouts where the adults do all the work, and you attempt to do something one time and you get credit for mastering the skill. And I know the parents are in that mentality despite parents' meeting with them. We have one guy pushing his 2 kids to get Eagle ASAP so they could move onto other things.

[NJCubScouter]

Boy Scouting is for boys who think camping is fun.

Including cooking. And while nobody likes washing pots and pans, the boys need to understand (and I think most of ours do) that if people are going to eat, people also need to clean up afterwards.

[David CO]

Including cooking. And while nobody likes washing pots and pans, the boys need to understand (and I think most of ours do) that if people are going to eat, people also need to clean up afterwards.

 

Not necessarily.

 

We all know that some menu choices require a lot of clean up. Others make clean up a snap. So long as they are making reasonably healthy choices, I don't mind if a patrol opts for the no-pots-and-pans route. I'll even teach them how to do it.

 

If your boys are leaving because they think your program is too much work, then maybe it is.

Edited October 9, 2017 by David CO

[NJCubScouter]

Not necessarily.

 

We all know that some menu choices require a lot of clean up. Others make clean up a snap. So long as they are making reasonably healthy choices, I don't mind it if a patrol opts for the no-pots-and-pans route. I'll even teach them how to do it.

Well, ok, I'll amend that to say that if there are things to be cleaned up, someone has to do it. It might be a lot of work, or it may just be making sure that whatever trash has been produced is disposed of properly. I was reacting to Eagle's comment that kids were saying they don't want to "cook or do KP", the latter of which suggests in his troop, there are generally pots, pans, utensils, etc. to be washed.

[David CO]

Well, ok, I'll amend that to say that if there are things to be cleaned up, someone has to do it. It might be a lot of work, or it may just be making sure that whatever trash has been produced is disposed of properly. I was reacting to Eagle's comment that kids were saying they don't want to "cook or do KP", the latter of which suggests in his troop, there are generally pots, pans, utensils, etc. to be washed.

 

Yes, I get that. But rather than complaining about the boys not wanting to do the work, maybe he should be reexamining his program. Maybe it is getting to be too much work.

 

Boys will only do as much work as they are willing to do. After that, they'll quit the program.

Edited October 9, 2017 by David CO

[njdrt-rdr]

This happens every season as the new scouts join up. While the Webelo and AOL year are kind of supposed to be transition years, it doesn't always work that way as they have the same den leader as they did in the past and often to continue spoon feeding the scouts and then it's culture shock at the troop when they get there. Honestly I wish there were a position for a webelo leader who just did the two webelo and aol years...But that's not feasible unless you had someone that wanted to hang around scouts and just do that.

[Eagle94-A1]

If your boys are leaving because they think your program is too much work, then maybe it is.

 

Actually the ones who left want the adults to cook, clean, etc. They just want to play. One of them actually said that he didn't cook or clean up at home, why should he in Scouts.

[Chadamus]

It's a shame some parents don't teach their children how to be self-sufficient. Sounds like a good candidate for Scouting to me.