New BALOO Training curriculum?

[SSScout]

BALOO is/was the Cub leader requirement to take a Cub Pack camping.  The old training was a long morning, afternoon of discussion, equipment demo, experience sharing, group dynamics study.  

We were  recently  informed that National has decreed a new set of curricula that requires (!)  an overnight camp ,  sort of another IOLS for Cub leaders.  The consensus around here is that the BALOO (lost the acronymic relevance with the elimination of the Kipling Jungle Book connection) was meant to be an introduction to folks that may not have had ANY camping experience at all, that Cub camping need not involve "roughing it".  Why the desire to immerse newbies in an overnight, set up the tent, cook outdoors for a first time out kind of thing? 

And how hard is it to get Cub parent leaders out for an afternoon of training, much less a WEEKEND ?  And why the "Immediately" declaration, rather than "as of...." sort of scheduling. 

Maybe Irving is seeking to employ the classic  psychology of the "Cognitive Dissonance" phenomena.   Make it so undesirable that it has to be desirable...  

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/510-033(17)BALOO.pdf

Edited October 2, 2017 by SSScout

[RichardB]

The Cub Scout program changed, the adult training changed to meet the needs of more outdoor experiences - not seeing how an actual camp experience as part of a training for overnight camping is out of line.   Plus this tags the thread.  

[mashmaster]

We have done a mega training the last couple of years with IOLS / OWLS / BALOO as a weekend together.  It has been very well attended and people get a lot out of the experience and networking with out leaders at different stages of their scouting experience.  We camp at a church so they have access to clean bathrooms, coffee, and Heat/AC.  Arrive Friday evening, leave Saturday Evening.

 

Also combined with the training we get give aways from local outdoors stores so they walk away with door prizes.  It is amazing what some people will do for something free.

[numbersnerd]

When this was announced at our last roundtable, everyone in the room rolled their eyes. Then we realized that the last old-style BALOO course was in 3 days and the opportunity to offer an easy to schedule and digest course to newer leaders would be gone. 

Nobody there thought the prospect of an overnight obligation for this type of training was going to enjoy high participation. It's hard enough to get volunteers without these types of obligations and requirements.

It's almost as if they are trying to eliminate the ability to have trained leaders on site, and thus lessen the opportunities for Cub camping which are (understandably) minimal to begin with.

 

I have a question that touches on the fallout: Are units required to have BALOO trained leaders on site for district- or council-sponsored camping events?

Because if not, that might end up being the only time some Cubs experience camping. Which would also have the effect of pumping up district and council attendance at these events.

Yes, I'm a cynic.

[Eagledad]

The Cub Scout program changed, the adult training changed to meet the needs of more outdoor experiences - not seeing how an actual camp experience as part of a training for overnight camping is out of line.   Plus this tags the thread.  

Really! That is interesting. My primary challenge for recruiting cub leaders is time and training. Even the Webelos leaders were backing out when they heard of the overnight training. The hoops I went through to get leaders trained, now the Wolf leaders also have to sleep over? National has completely lost touch we the program.

 

Barry

[TAHAWK]

My home district has done an overnight as part of Baloo for years,  The Baloo people could leave at 2 PM Saturday, but most elected to stay with the OWL people for the rest of the course, leaving Sunday.

 

If training is fun, people have no problem taking it. 

 

If training is to be endured, it needs to take less time.  The last may explain why the non-outdoor part of SM/ASM basic has been slashed.  

Edited October 2, 2017 by TAHAWK

[The Latin Scot]

As I related on another thread some time back, my BALOO training was, for all intents and purposes, awful. Just, absolutely the worst. What was supposed to be an "all day session of the most fun training you'll ever have!" (as the syllabus claimed) actually consisted of 90 minutes of some old cynical Scouter complaining about how he didn't want to teach the course in the first place, then showing some irrelevant powerpoint slides on camping gear he liked, a handout with long-outdated BSA policies (like, from the 80's before I was even born), and then the signing of our cards to indicate we had been "trained." It was one of the most excruciatingly boring and useless training sessions I have ever had the misfortune of enduring - and I usually love training meetings! I ended up downloading the course materials so that I could train myself, but it was abysmal.

 

I ended up writing a detailed, polite yet rather blunt review and critique of the trainer, his "course materials," and whole fiasco, and sent it to the Council for review - since this was offered at our yearly University of Scouting training event, which is otherwise a really wonderful program, I felt they needed to be aware of this massive blight on their course offerings. As a result, I notice that this year they no longer offer BALOO at the event, but instead have it calendared as a designated, all-day, course-specific activity at our nearest Scout Camp later this month. I hope that maybe my input contributed to waking them up to the situation so that they felt prompted to reassess how they ran the course. But at any rate, it seems upcoming trainees will have a far better experience than I did. 

[numbersnerd]

The one I went through was 7-8 hours with lunch done by participants (foil packets) and lots of interactive portions. It was fun, covered the basics and then some. Best of all was that it generated quite a bit of conversation among participants.

Quite a few nuggets we still reference humorously today, one being, "Cub Scouts do family camping. However, this does not necessarily mean YOUR family's idea of camping" (as in, leave the booze, etc at home)

 

From gear, to safety, to food, to program, to outdoor ethics. While nothing new to many, it was illuminating to others. And all in a day. 

 

I can't help feeling that the extra time commitment is going to keep away many who could benefit from it simply due to the time required for a twice-annual opportunity of Cub camping. It appears more and more that those in charge of designing the program continue to drift further away from the reality of the volunteer experience.

[Eagle1993]

Really! That is interesting. My primary challenge for recruiting cub leaders is time and training. Even the Webelos leaders were backing out when they heard of the overnight training. The hoops I went through to get leaders trained, now the Wolf leaders also have to sleep over? National has completely lost touch we the program.

 

Barry

I absolutely agree. My volunteers are also soccer coaches, t-ball coaches, help at their church, etc. if they have to dedicate a large portion of a weekend for scouting, they will want to do this with their youth... not a lot of other leaders to train them how to setup a tent. I'm sorry, but most of this training should be online and perhaps a short hands on portion if needed. This isn't scaling Everest or even high adventure. I thought the current training was too long and had minimal value. Maximize any time you get from volunteers with the scouts ... not on overburden some training.

[ScoutmasterDanny]

As a BALOO trainer, I can say that I felt the old course was not interesting and did not prepare a leader for taking a large group of scouts for an overnight.  I haven't fully read the new syllabus, but I am looking forward to an updated experience.

[blw2]

yeah, I'm not convinced IOLS does anything on that front either

 

 

regardless....maybe I too, am just cynical, but it'll just be more of the same.....

except the endless talking, trying to listen and power points will drag on past dinner time.  If you're lucky, it'll be in a nice outdoor setting but likely it'll just be sitting around the picnic tables under some picnic shelter someplace....

 

They will probably all be released at some point to go set up their tents.... or maybe they do that at arrival...then at some point later, they will sit through a 45 minute lecture on tents, how to by a tent, how to set it up, and how to care for it..... hey, wait a minute....don't they already know that?

 

I have always gotten a laugh when I think about the BALOO course I took (after about 2 years of trying to find one)

It was a class about taking the scouts outside, right?.....but we stayed INSIDE the WHOLE day....  it was a nice day out as I recall too.... and most of us had brought our camp chairs too, since we were told to bring them at signup....

but we sat inside of a fellowship hall at a church all day.  Didn't even get to go outside to cook the tin foil soldier meals that we assembled in the kitchen.  Some staff member took them out and grilled them for us....

    Seriously...SNL could do a skit on that....

 

Regardless

I'm all for it being an overnight....outside

but I don't think it needs all the sitting and talking/listening stuff.

Maybe a reasonable session covering the rules and requirements stuff...while sitting around the campfire

and then perhaps a few hands-on real world sessions for skills...but mostly that stuff should be covered just by the fact that they are out there....in the woods..... camping already.

[Tampa Turtle]

We went outside and walked around to various stations. They covered everything down to what if someone got killed. It was OK. I think an overnighter is reasonable.

[Eagle94-A1]

I have mixed emotions on BALOO, ITOLS, etc.

 

Regarding BALOO, for some folks it's making them jump through hoops to take their packs camping. Those are the ones who grew up in the program, have extensive camping backgrounds, and have been trained in specific training. I know I did not learn anything new when I took BALOO. Heck I could have taught the course since I taught IOLS and JLTC prior to doing BALOO.

 

BUT we have new folks who have never been camping before. THEY NEED THE OVERNIGHT EXPERIENCE! ( emphasis) They need to get comfortable in the outdoors. So I'm glad it's overnight. Just wish gear was provided because some folks do not have gear.

 

Regarding ITOLS, same as above, some grew up in the program, and have the knowledge,skills, and abilities to do Boy Scout, Sea Scout, and Venturing camping. My outdoor training was part of the old SM Fundamentals course, which included fast start, specific, and ITOLS, back in the day. Only new thing  I learned was the paperwork side of things.

 

But again, we got folks with no Boy Scout camping experience. They need it.

[Chisos]

Agreed with @@Eagle94-A1.  There is such a diversity of experience at the Pack level with respect to camping skills that you've just got to start somewhere.  When I took BALOO I didn't learn any skills...I already knew how to build a fire, pitch a tent, make a foil dinner, etc.  But there were several in my group that did not.  The trainers did a good job of identifying those that had some skills and paired us up with those who didn't.  What I did get out of it was some good discussion and thinking about the logistics of issues with taking a  big group of families on a campout...that was not something I had ever experienced as a scout growing up.

[ParkMan]

I really enjoyed my BALOO course

It was the best Cub Scout training I've seen.

 

I don't see the need for and overnight. In a typical pack, the person organizing the pack campout will have been around for a while. They'll know the basics of camping. It will be unusual for the organizer to have never camped.

 

The old material felt like the right mix. It reviewed/taught a few basics, covered of basics on planning, and shared some best practices.