When is it OK for an ASM to raise their voice and yell at a Scout?

[David CO]

When a boy went missing, it was a really big deal for my unit.  By policy, the entire troop had to stop what they were doing, split up into search teams, and find the missing scout.  After finding the scout, the PL would be instructed to keep his scout on a very short leash for the remainder of the camping trip.

 

If all of the boys in my unit were told to meet up at a certain time and place, and a boy didn't show up, he would be considered missing.  We would have to go find him. The whole issue of merit badge homework and service projects would be secondary to the issue of a boy going missing at camp.  

[Back Pack]

Yep.

I doubt many people would dress down a scout in front of the troop especially their own son. Those who wild should consider learning effective counseling skills. I'm only 19 and I know that's wrong.

[David CO]

I doubt many people would dress down a scout in front of the troop especially their own son. Those who wild should consider learning effective counseling skills. I'm only 19 and I know that's wrong.

 

Effective counseling skills?   Ha, ha, ha.  Does this take place (in your unit) before yoga class or after group therapy?

[qwazse]

I doubt many people would dress down a scout in front of the troop especially their own son. Those who wild should consider learning effective counseling skills. I'm only 19 and I know that's wrong.

Effective counseling skills?   Ha, ha, ha.  Does this take place (in your unit) before yoga class or after group therapy?

A lot of folks get their first "counseling skills" at wood badge. Even then, the rough edges (i.e., their degree from the counseling "School of Hard Knocks") might take some time to wear off.

 

Sometimes you can find the tool made right for the nut, other times you have to fit the nut to the tool you can find.

[Tampa Turtle]

I have been that ASM and I have always apologized to the boy privately and the Troop publicly. Nevertheless you lose quite a bit of face with the Scouts when you do that. I try to confine my yelling to danger issues but on occasion been baited and took the bait. Nothing I am proud of. Probably why I am  not Scoutmaster material.

[David CO]

A lot of folks get their first "counseling skills" at wood badge. Even then, the rough edges (i.e., their degree from the counseling "School of Hard Knocks") might take some time to wear off.

 

Sometimes you can find the tool made right for the nut, other times you have to fit the nut to the tool you can find.

 

I don't want it to wear off. I am proud of my working class background. I like my rough edges.

 

A lot of my scouts liked it, too. They got enough of that phony-baloney soft-voiced counseling at school and church.  They wanted their scoutmaster to be real, and talk like a real guy to them.

 

I didn't counsel scouts, I just talked to them.

Edited September 29, 2017 by David CO

[Back Pack]

Effective counseling skills?   Ha, ha, ha.  Does this take place (in your unit) before yoga class or after group therapy?

Ok how about good parenting skills? You just don't call out a kid in front of other kids. I learned that in NYLT. Are you telling me adults don't know that?

[David CO]

Ok how about good parenting skills? You just don't call out a kid in front of other kids. I learned that in NYLT. Are you telling me adults don't know that?

 

Please, do tell all of us parents and grandparents about good parenting. After all, you attended NYLT.  I would absolutely love to hear all about it.

Edited September 29, 2017 by David CO

[Back Pack]

Please, do tell all of us parents and grandparents about good parenting. After all, you attended NYLT.  I would absolutely love to hear all about it.

Wow and I thought my generation was needlessly snarky. Look it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know you don't scream at or demean anyone in front of others. Especially other kids. Would you like to get yelled at in front of 30-40 people? I was a Boy Scout so I know the Oath and Law. I go to church so I have been taught to treat others with kindness. I have good parents and family who have taught me to be nice to people. I hope when I am a parent I will treat others with respect. I can't believe that you don't think the average parent in scouting doesn't know that you don't yell at kids in front of other kids. I'm glad the adults in my life knew better.

[qwazse]

Then there was my HS Chemistry teacher who had exquisitely sarcastic barbs for anyone who wasn't keeping pace with the lectures. Called upon, and not having an answer, one might get an "I've heard that boys spend most of their day in fantasy land. Looks like I finally found proof."

Tapping one's pencil eraser while working a problem ... "That's an outside wall. We're on the second floor. No Morse code answer will be tapped back."

For each quiz question answered wrongly, we had to turn in a paper with the correct answer, repeated 10 times.

Humiliation in spades,

 

At the end of the day, we get to college and chem was easier for us than for our classmates from other schools.

 

It might not take a rocket scientist, but it's not second nature.

[Sentinel947]

There's no place in Scouting for foul language or demeaning or belittling others. Particularly coming from adults. That being said, I think people these days are too sensitive. 

 

One of the formative moments of my childhood came my Freshman year of high school. I was in band class, and I sucked at the song we were playing because I was too lazy and apathetic to practice. The Director calls me out in front of the entire section. "Sentinel947, Why do you suck so bad?" I kinda just blew him off. So he came after me. "You know why you suck? You suck because you are wasting away your potential, and you could just be brilliant if you cared even a little bit." That interaction was harsh, but it was a pivotal moment in my life. 3 years later I was a Section leader in the band, responsible for leading the other percussionists in rehearsal. That band director was one of my Eagle References. 

 

While I don't like that approach for working with Scouts, sometimes a little "Tough Love" and rough around the edges is good for them. One of my favorite ASM's growing up was kind of a jerk. Underneath his snark was a genuinely caring and talented ASM, but he was tough to warm up to. 

 

I'm a generally soft power person. I try to privately (within the rules of YPT)deal with Scouts when I make corrective actions. To some Scouts me coming up to them and quietly saying "Lets have a chat" is more terrifying to them than if I reamed them like a Drill instructor, because the authority figures in their lives already take that approach. Having that conversation over their behavior is hard to them. They are just used to having the punishment and moving on. 

 

Heck, as a moderator here, I generally will PM somebody if I have a problem with what they posted. But if I think a bit more blunt force will work on a particular scout, like @@David CO describes, I'll go for that approach. 

 

There are more than one approach to working with Scouts. Each of our Scouts are different and will react differently to how we work with them. It's important to use the right tool for the right scout, in the right situation. I have shouted and barked at a Scout. I was running a rifle range and despite being behind the Scout, I saw down the barrel of a loaded gun. There was no "soft power" in that situation.... 

 

Just my two cents. 

[David CO]

Wow and I thought my generation was needlessly snarky. Look it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know you don't scream at or demean anyone in front of others. Especially other kids. Would you like to get yelled at in front of 30-40 people? I was a Boy Scout so I know the Oath and Law. I go to church so I have been taught to treat others with kindness. I have good parents and family who have taught me to be nice to people. I hope when I am a parent I will treat others with respect. I can't believe that you don't think the average parent in scouting doesn't know that you don't yell at kids in front of other kids. I'm glad the adults in my life knew better.

 

Apparently you haven't been watching the television set. Half the country supported a president who is rough in the way he talks.  He sounds a lot like us. I actually like that. A lot of people do.

 

I don't know what the average parent thinks, but I do know that a lot of them would disagree with you. Most of the people in my circle of family, friends, and acquaintances would disagree with you. 

 

I know that you feel superior to me. I know that you feel that your parents are superior to my parents. I know that you feel that your background is superior to my background.

 

The thing that galls me is not that you think the adults in your life knew better. You think that you and the adults in your life are better.

[Stosh]

Go talk to your patrol leader... unless you need an adult to give both barrels to some slacker who may or may not have had permission from his PL to skip the project.

 

Unfortunately it doesn't look too cool for an adult to go into a rage because some 13 year old pushed his buttons. 

 

Not cool no one in the troop had the bravery to step up and put this bully in his place.  It can be done respectfully and tactfully if taught to step up to leadership in the troop.

 

Boys aren't looking to macho blue collar men to mentor them in the good-old-boys methods, they would much rather learn effective leadership/interpersonal dynamics that produce men who don't fly off the handle when 13 year olds push their buttons.

 

If a boy gets lost on an activity and everyone goes into a tizzy, and the troop goes into panic search and rescue, does anyone bother to ask a few questions like:

 

1) why was he alone?  It might be good to know what direction he headed and why his buddy didn't go with him.  Oh??? now that you mention it, where is his buddy, maybe we have 2 lost boys.... ???

 

2) has he done this before?  Only when he wants to go to the latrine.... Did anyone check the latrine?  Did he fall in?

 

3) Where's his PL?  He should know where his boys are.  If the PL's aren't taking care of their boys, maybe it's time for someone to step into that role that does.

 

4) How long has he been gone?  When was the last time roll call was taken?  Never?  Now we don't know how far he could have gotten so we have to search all the way back to his house.

 

5) are all the adults present or do we have a YPT issue going on here.  "That would never happen in our troop" -- famous last words of the naive and uninitiated.

 

6) how long are you going to play search and rescue before notifying the authorities of the issue?  2 minutes?, 30 minutes? an hour?  Time is important in a search and rescue operation.

 

Along with poor leadership, there seems to be a gaping hole in the management plan as well.  Sounds like from the adults on down, not much "taking are of your boys." going on.  This is a safety issue.  Don't put the onus on the boys when there's gross negligence on the part of the adults.

 

If one can't handle a simple,"somebody didn't show up for a service project." how can one be trusted in a serious situation? 

[ItsBrian]

So the ASPL wasn't in charge? The SM should have made that clear.

The ASPL should be in charge though.

[Stosh]

This is what happens when one doesn't use the proper boy-led, patrol method in the unit.  Adult led, troop method, SPL/ASPL held in limbo and the discipline goes down the kybo.