blw2 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 honestly....I think this thread points to the one major root to the problem with scouting today, and more close to home for me...why my son has lost interest in scouts. Not enough freedom to explore and grow. He's getting nothing different in scouts than he gets anywhere else. If they were allowed to "go"...I think things would be different. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 I have taken church groups to large metropolitan cities and as long as they stayed in groups of 6 or more they could leave the hotel and go shopping or find some place to eat. Never had a problem, there's safety in numbers. If a co-ed church group can handle being on their own in a large city, a patrol should be able to handle themselves in the woods. Parental Panic of unfounded fears is not a good excuse to ruin the adventure of a Scout unit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 The three words no Scoutmaster wants to hear: "HEY ! WATCH THIS !" The point of this discussion I think is whether or not the SM can trust his Scouts, out of his hearing, not to say those three words.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 The three words no Scoutmaster wants to hear: "HEY ! WATCH THIS !" The point of this discussion I think is whether or not the SM can trust his Scouts, out of his hearing, not to say those three words.... I've had more trouble with adults in that arena than with youth, so for me, it's a horse apiece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred johnson Posted September 28, 2017 Author Share Posted September 28, 2017 ... I think this thread points to the one major root to the problem with scouting today ... I strongly agree with you. I want to give the scouts large latitude. I find they behave better and I trust them more when I give them more freedom. Based on earlier comments, I think I'll know how to execute this so that scouts have significantly more freedom. Scouts need that freedom to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoPenn Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 I can only assume by comments our SM has made in the past, that his biggest fear is being held responsible for something bad happening to a scout. I think he's a little paranoid but I'm sure most of you veteran scouters have at least one story of something bad happened to a scout and having to tell the parents. I agree that the scouts need freedom and need trust that they will do the right thing. How do you balance the need of the scouts with parents that won't be happy when their scout comes home with a broken ankle or worse? I don't think many parents would be as understanding as I am if they found out no leader was present when their son was injured, no matter the reason why. I don't think it matters how many times you explain things in a meeting or email, they'll still be upset. It's not just an angry parent but other headaches that could result from that. I wonder how much he might fear being responsible for something bad a Scout or group of Scouts do on their own at a state park. Lets face it, as much as the Scouts have a generally positive reputation with the public, the reputation of Boy Scouts is often lower among park personnel and people who camp at state parks. That said, as long as expectations and boundaries are well communicated, Scouts should be allowed to explore on their own (with buddies or as patrols) - give them maps, make sure they are well-versed in the rules - and that you've pointed out things they are not allowed to do - and then trust them to go off on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back Pack Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Our troop always takes time to work with park staff to do a service project of some kind, even if just camp ground clean up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 When our crew stopped at the Canadian Ranger Station to enter the Canadian Quetico Park in the Boundary Waters, the Ranger lectured us for 30 minutes on the limitations of camping in the Canadian parks. She also showed a book of pictures that showed extensive damage caused by Boy Scouts in the past. The damage and trash was shocking, but I never saw anything that even hinted that it was done by scouts. Still, a very poor reputation preceded our visit that I'm sure is somewhat deserved. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 I strongly agree with you. I want to give the scouts large latitude. I find they behave better and I trust them more when I give them more freedom. Based on earlier comments, I think I'll know how to execute this so that scouts have significantly more freedom. Scouts need that freedom to grow. Independence comes with ability. I assure you, if you don't grant that independence in scouting, boys will find their independence anyway outside of scouting. If in the process of being independent outside of scouting, they amass poor character, I assure you they will bring bad behavior back into scouting no matter how tight the adult oversight is. It sounds like in your gut you know this. If your direct-contact adults know this too, you'll make wise decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdidochas Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Kids today at the same age are not as developmentally mature as they were 50 years ago. I don't believe it. I think we always look back and think that kids in the past were better than the kids today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back Pack Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 I don't believe it. I think we always look back and think that kids in the past were better than the kids today. Most of my friends didn't get their license until 17 or 18. Most never had part time jobs. Many have had their parents give them cars or other very expensive items. Most don't date much, nearly never 1 on 1 always going on dates in groups. No one ever calls anyone and talking to older people freaks most of them out. Talking to my parents about these issues even they agree that wasn't anywhere close to what they did. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Most of my friends didn't get their license until 17 or 18. Most never had part time jobs. Many have had their parents give them cars or other very expensive items. Most don't date much, nearly never 1 on 1 always going on dates in groups. No one ever calls anyone and talking to older people freaks most of them out. Talking to my parents about these issues even they agree that wasn't anywhere close to what they did. Truth: I didn't date until I was 20. Fortunately Mrs. Q was patient with my inexperience. That was mainly due to witnessing the train wreck of my older sibling's relationships ... and figuring that Mom was only half-crazy with her old-world attitude. I think more young people are taking in more experiences (observing online what's happened to others) and deciding that the real stuff can wait until later. One of my three kids did. Others of my friends have an even higher portion of their kids who've avoided the "teen scene" of past decades. That doesn't change the need to walk through this world on their own two feet. But, it is hard. Right now my venturers aren't engaging the program. They are at the age where I expect them to call their own meetings and be physically present for one another. It seems to be a huge hurdle for this group more than any other I've known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgood777 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 I know exactly what my pastor would say. He would look the boys straight in the eyes and ask, "What exactly do you boys want to do that you can't do with adult oversight?" When I was a Scout, I would have straight up told him we want to move faster over rougher terrain than our adults are willing or able to hike. If I was held back by having to drag an adult along on every adventure, I probably wouldn't have stayed in the program very long. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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