How to market for the BSA

[Eagledad]

Yah, it's difficult problem. Back Pack is right that Patrol Method IS the scouting program. Or at least the troop program. But the problem is "what is Patrol Method"? Adults by human instinct are ambitious and seek gratification of personal performance. With that in mind, the actions in the "advancement" process are strait forward and produces fast results. Did the scout learn a knot? Yes! Bang. Done. Sign and move to the Next Requirement. The process of Patrol Method, on the other hand, is vague compared to a first class signoff list. Even worse, the patrol method process of changing habits by responding to previous bad decisions is slow and cumbersome. It requires a great deal of patience AND trust. And in reality, performance of a scouts growth in character may not be seen for several years. 

 

Is it no wonder adults steer toward advancement activities? 

 

But let's understand, adults are not being purposely malicious in how the direct their scouting program. They honestly believe they are nobly doing exactly the program that builds character. As Back Pack points out, the BSA should do a better job training patrol method. But after 25 years of teaching different training courses, I'm not sure quality patrol method can be taught in the limited time today's adults are willing to give. Patrol method has to be experienced or observed over time to understand it's advantages. I've said many times that a new adult leader with a youth scouting experience is three years a head of most new adults without without a youth scout experience. 

 

I don't blame the adults. I blame the process that drives inexperienced adults to intuitively steer the program to be advancement driven. Because I have the youth scouting experience, I know that fishing is a lot more fun than tying knots.  

 

Barry

[CA Scout Mom]

This is probably going to sound like heresy but our troop is beginning to incorporate more STEM into our troop activities and it seems to be attracting new Scouts and their families.  By marketing "outdoor adventure", I don't think there's a huge amount of interest in that in our area, frankly.  A lot of dads of the Scouts aren't involved for whatever reason (demanding jobs, out of town work travel, general disinterest in Scouts, stated dislike of the outdoors) and therefore it's the moms who tend to bring their sons to troop meetings.  They and their sons are comfortable with STEM and then once they feel comfortable and trust us, then introducing the outdoors becomes more viable.  Out troop actually does a lot of outdoor activities--rock climbing, kayaking, backpacking in the Sierras, hiking, etc.) but it just doesn't seem to be a compelling draw.  The STEM stuff, though, seems to pique their interest.

[Cambridgeskip]

Nearly everybody (be they scouts or sports clubs) pitches character and leadership when recruiting youth.

 

We offer skills that will forestall death.

 

Lighting fires is one thing, lighting them in freezing rain is another.

Swimming is one thing, safely rescuing a tired swimmer is another.

Hiking is one thing, helping an injured hiker stave off shock is another.

Camping is one thing, making the shelter out of found items is another.

Roasting a hot-dog is one thing, a four-course meal is another.

 

None of these skills need to be learned under a "high adventure" or "character/leadership" moniker. They sell themselves if we instill a vision of the pinnacle scouting experience: hiking and camping independently with your mates.

 

I have a feeling we're saying exactly he same thing here! I think the only difference is that when organisations tell a kid this is character building they aren't really that fussed, they just want to do the character building stuff because it's fun.

 

12 year olds don't sign up to learn how to camp independently with their friends because it shows they are a great leader or team worker or whatever. They sign up to do it because it is great fun.

 

New recruit started last night. She's about as young as they can be to start the scout section, only tuned 10 a few days ago. We had a wide games night in the local woods. You and I know that wide games develops cooperation, strategy, fitness, courage, listening all those good things.

 

She doesn't care. She went home describing it as "awesome" to her mum because she got to run round and get muddy in the woods with her friends on a school night. Job done!

[Back Pack]

Almost all youth organizations and sports groups have character development as a stated objective.

 

For example, the Little League Baseball shoulder patch, which is worn on our uniforms, says, "Character, Courage, Loyalty." Pretty good values, I think.

Yes they do say it. I was asking how do they do it? Scouting has obvious programs that build character. What part of the little league baseball program officially works on character building? I've already said that people may learn character by simply living their lives but that's not the point. You've pointed out the difference between scouting and other programs that compete with us. Everyone says they build character but do they have programs in place to do so and how do they do it really? Edited September 22, 2017 by Back Pack

[blw2]

I was just thinking about this thread..... the TV show or youtube idea...and that book I read Rocks in my Backpack...

The statement was made that troops can't do high adventure all the time.  true enough

and really high adventure doesn't have to really be all that "high", especially for kids, for it to be adventure and fun...

But if there are enough BIG trips spaced out through the year....like 2-4 maybe....

and then there is some genuine preparation done for those trip between

    not just talking about what you're gonna do...but hands on learning and doing.... not reading from the handbook...but actually get outside and build a patrol teepee for use at the next camp.... or practicing snow shoeing leading up to a big overnight treck....

Then that might be enough....

 

so the thought I had, related to this thread and marketing....

what if there was a show that would visit various troops...not only on a special outing but more routine meetings too....

the show might do features on a particular scout or patrol or troop....

maybe follow them through a couple preparation meetings leading up to a survival campout for example.... or an overnight canoe advneture

Would your troops meetings as they are now make for exciting TV? Would a boy seeing it say to himself, hey I want to join them and do that?

[David CO]

Yes they do say it. I was asking how do they do it? Scouting has obvious programs that build character. What part of the little league baseball program officially works on character building? I've already said that people may learn character by simply living their lives but that's not the point. You've pointed out the difference between scouting and other programs that compete with us. Everyone says they build character but do they have programs in place to do so and how do they do it really?

 

Actually, you did ask if they had character building as a stated objective.  They do.  I'm glad we now agree on that point.

 

How well they do it will vary from team to team and coach to coach.  Just like scouting.  Scout units and scout leaders also vary in how well they advance character development.

 

As Cambridgeskip says, kids don't join scouting for character development.  They join to have fun.  They join for the game.  We scouters understand that scouting is a game with a purpose.  Parents and kids often don't get that.

 

It is exactly the same in sports.  The games have a purpose.  They develop character, courage, and loyalty.  I would also add strength, confidence, leadership, sportsmanship, and perseverance.  All good things.

 

Yes, sports programs do develop character.  They do have programs, policies, methods, and materials in place to promote character development.  Yes, they do.

 

I disagree with your statement that I point out the differences between scouting and sports programs.  Most of the time, I am pointing out the similarities.  In fact, when I was an Athletic Director, I felt that the two activities were so similar in their goals and values, I wanted scouting to be in the athletic department.

 

I don't see scouting and sports as two competing programs.  I see them as parallel programs with nearly identical purposes.  I don't care whether boys join scouting or sports.  I really don't.  I just want them to participate is some physical, outdoor activity that promotes good health, morals, and character.  

[Chisos]

I was just thinking about this thread..... the TV show or youtube idea...and that book I read Rocks in my Backpack...

The statement was made that troops can't do high adventure all the time.  true enough

and really high adventure doesn't have to really be all that "high", especially for kids, for it to be adventure and fun...

But if there are enough BIG trips spaced out through the year....like 2-4 maybe....

and then there is some genuine preparation done for those trip between

    not just talking about what you're gonna do...but hands on learning and doing.... not reading from the handbook...but actually get outside and build a patrol teepee for use at the next camp.... or practicing snow shoeing leading up to a big overnight treck....

Then that might be enough....

 

 

This I think is a good point.  We often have a plan on what skill to work on at a troop meeting, but then due do either lack of preparation or communication it devolves into "reading it from the book".  It's a problem we've identified and are working on, so hopefully it'll get better.  But what it needs is preparation on the part of the scouts if it's going to be "scout-led" instruction.  We as leaders often joke about how it's supposed to be "an hour a week" (knowing it's not).  I think many boys think that too...Scouts is an "hour a week".  We're working on (Effort + Time) = Preparation; Preparation = Fun (and meaningful) Troop Meetings.

[thrifty]

I think everyone has great input.  It shows that this program that we all believe in means different things to many of us.  How great is that?  BSA can represent so many things and accomplish so many things.  I especially agree with Eagledad.  I just wish everyone could get their crap together and make it all work. 

 

I don't see scouting and sports as two competing programs.  I see them as parallel programs with nearly identical purposes.  I don't care whether boys join scouting or sports.  I really don't.  I just want them to participate is some physical, outdoor activity that promotes good health, morals, and character.  

this is kind of where I'm coming from.  To me, the only significant difference between scouting and other youth programs is camping. 

 

The BSA should really have more of a media presence.  I'm sure they're probably worried about more negative press but we see scouts do great things like save lives or help clean up after a hurricane and it deserves more attention.  Prepared. For Life.  I really love that slogan.  Isn't that what we hope to accomplish?  We always hear about how many presidents or astronauts have been in scouting.  I want to know how many doctors or EMTs were scouts.  I want to know how many firemen or policemen were scouts.  Maybe it's a lot, maybe it's not.  Either way it's something to think about.  Those are just a few examples, there are probably better ones. 

[Back Pack]

How does baseball develop character? Scouting actually outlines how they do it. How does little league baseball do it? Is it documented?

[Chisos]

How does baseball develop character? Scouting actually outlines how they do it. How does little league baseball do it? Is it documented?

 

I can see how youth sports develops character...teamwork, focus, setting and achieving goals, respect, overcoming adversity (especially if you team's not that good!)

 

I think where Scouts is different is in the opportunity to develop leadership...there are plenty of opportunities through a Scouting career for a scout to define a vision and lead other to fulfilling it.

[David CO]

I can see how youth sports develops character...teamwork, focus, setting and achieving goals, respect, overcoming adversity (especially if you team's not that good!)

 

I think where Scouts is different is in the opportunity to develop leadership...there are plenty of opportunities through a Scouting career for a scout to define a vision and lead other to fulfilling it.

 

Sorry about the -1.  It was a mistake.  I was trying to hit the quote button.

[Stosh]

I've been gone a month, so I missed out on much of the conversation, but the skimming I've been doing doesn't really cover an important aspect of Scouting that has faded away into the past.

 

Yeah, yeah, here he goes again.

 

If one wishes to market scouting I would sum it up under just one mantra.  "Whatcha gonna do when the electricity goes out?"  Basements go black, cell phones run out of juice, the stove and microwave doesn't work, the refrigerator food starts to spoil, the freezer same thing, no TV, iTunes stop, it gets really, really dark after sunset, and the list goes on and on. It is at that point that one realizes what BP's motto "Be Prepared" is all about.  Not only have we abandoned historical scouting, we have even abandoned the basic premise of the organization.

 

How do I know all this?  Just got back from 4 weeks in Houston and met a whole lot of people that knew first hand what that meant.  They were without food, water and shelter, the basics of scouting and staying alive.  Although I wasn't in Florida nor the Caribbean islands, I can safely bet they're asking themselves the same thing.

 

So, along with "help other people at all times", how many scouts and/or scouters could even endure the rigors of going down and helping clean up the mess and provide food, water and shelter to people facing desperate times.  Probably not many, after 24 hours, most cell phones are going to go dead, probably don't even have cell service, and no electricity. 

 

Just how long does one think the average First Class scout would last?  Maybe BP's idea of getting out of the house into the woods wasn't just for fun, but to learn some useful skills when the house disappears.

 

Be Prepared.

[David CO]

I can see how youth sports develops character...teamwork, focus, setting and achieving goals, respect, overcoming adversity (especially if you team's not that good!)

 

I think where Scouts is different is in the opportunity to develop leadership...there are plenty of opportunities through a Scouting career for a scout to define a vision and lead other to fulfilling it.

 

Yes, there are opportunities "through a scouting career" for scouts to develop leadership.  Absolutely true.  But most of these leadership opportunities do not take place in Cub Scouts.  

 

If we are still talking about Little League, we should be comparing Little League to same-age scouts, not to the full range of scouting ages.

 

As with scouting, leadership opportunities in sports programs increase as the boys get older.  At the age level I coached (middle school), I would expect the boys to be leading their calisthenics, laps, stretching exercises, and standard drills.  Once they have learned the ropes, they can do that stuff themselves.

 

Also, not all team members are players.  We also have trainers, equipment managers, and score keepers/statisticians. These non-player positions of responsibility make up about 20% of a team.

 

We haven't even touched on fund raising and concessions volunteers, who are not necessarily members of the team, but who associate with and provide support for the team.

 

If you take into account both the players and the non-players on a team, an average sports team has as many positions of responsibility as a scout unit of the same size.

[David CO]

How does baseball develop character? Scouting actually outlines how they do it. How does little league baseball do it? Is it documented?

 

Little League Baseball runs in-services on that exact topic.  LLB tells coaches that character development takes place mostly at practices, not at games.  I totally agree.

 

If you only attend the games, like most parents, you will never see all the hard work that takes place behind the scenes. The heavy lifting takes place at practice.

 

By the way, how about the umpires?  Would you include all the middle school and high school umpires who work for Little League Baseball when you consider leadership and character?

Edited September 23, 2017 by David CO

[Chisos]

Yes, there are opportunities "through a scouting career" for scouts to develop leadership.  Absolutely true.  But most of these leadership opportunities do not take place in Cub Scouts.  

 

If we are still talking about Little League, we should be comparing Little League to same-age scouts, not to the full range of scouting ages.

 

As with scouting, leadership opportunities in sports programs increase as the boys get older.  At the age level I coached (middle school), I would expect the boys to be leading their calisthenics, laps, stretching exercises, and standard drills.  Once they have learned the ropes, they can do that stuff themselves.

 

Also, not all team members are players.  We also have trainers, equipment managers, and score keepers/statisticians. These non-player positions of responsibility make up about 20% of a team.

 

We haven't even touched on fund raising and concessions volunteers, who are not necessarily members of the team, but who associate with and provide support for the team.

 

If you take into account both the players and the non-players on a team, an average sports team has as many positions of responsibility as a scout unit of the same size.

 

I agree the leadership stuff doesn't come until later--I should have been more clear on that.  But, leadership development is not a method for Cub Scouts.

 

I also agree that the teamwork required to field a sports team, and all the support it entails, is similar to what you see with a Scout Troop.  So there's a lot of parallels there.

 

I guess the difference I'm trying to get at, is that in Scouts the youth have an opportunity to define their own vision and get others to buy in to it, and make it happen.  Maybe I'm off base (no pun intended!) but in sports the vision is pretty much already set...for the group to come together as a team and develop skills to win a game.  Character is developed through that process.  Leadership can be, too, by team members who inspire the rest of the team toward meeting that vision.

 

In Scouts, though, the vision can be whatever the scouts want it to be.  So the SPL wants the troop to develop a certain character--maybe they're going to be a "backpacking troop" or a "cooking troop" or whatever...he's got to figure out what that vision is, and get the buy-in to make it happen.  A different SPL has a different vision a couple of years later?  Fine--make it happen.

 

Sports and Scouts are both great opportunities for developing character.  And, in our troop, we encourage boys to be involved in other activities--sports, band, whatever.  It's a pain for scheduling, but in the long run I think it develops more well-rounded kids.  But, Scouting does things differently, and provides different opportunities that other activities such as sports--so I see them a complimentary.