Asking an SPL to Resign?

[Oldscout448]

I suspect the SM really isn't an ass, he just does not understand the importance of the spiritual dimension in this.   It's something that can't be explained very well if at all.    You have to have lived it  Or at the very least seen the difference it makes in someone who is very close to you.

 

just my $0.03  (dues have gone up)

 

Oldscout

[ItsBrian]

I suspect the SM really isn't an ass, he just does not understand the importance of the spiritual dimension in this.   It's something that can't be explained very well if at all.    You have to have lived it  Or at the very least seen the difference it makes in someone who is very close to you.

 

just my $0.03  (dues have gone up)

 

Oldscout

True, maybe the SM wasnt brought on religion and has no idea how much one can be dedicated or faithful to it.

[Ranman328]

As an ASM, I applaud your SPL for being a good leader and giving plenty of notice, getting a suitable replacement for the event and still working t ensure the event is a success.  It looks like the only thing he will not be doing is attending the event.  What if a family emergency or illness came up.  Would the Scoutmaster ask for his resignation then.  Shouldn't the scouts be running the troop?  Maybe the SM should check with the PLC or PL's only if their is complaints.  Doesn't sound like there are any here.  The SM should step back and let these boys become leaders and see how they handle some adversity.  That is how good leaders are trained.

[ItsBrian]

As an ASM, I applaud your SPL for being a good leader and giving plenty of notice, getting a suitable replacement for the event and still working t ensure the event is a success.  It looks like the only thing he will not be doing is attending the event.  What if a family emergency or illness came up.  Would the Scoutmaster ask for his resignation then.  Shouldn't the scouts be running the troop?  Maybe the SM should check with the PLC or PL's only if their is complaints.  Doesn't sound like there are any here.  The SM should step back and let these boys become leaders and see how they handle some adversity.  That is how good leaders are trained.

In all honestly, the ASPL(s) and PLs should be the ones running the event. SPL is suppose to delegate and oversee. It can’t hurt to miss one event for personal matters. And I like your reasoning about if he got sick.

Edited September 4, 2017 by RememberSchiff
Rescue qwazse

[qwazse]

In all honestly, the ASPL(s) and PLs should be the ones running the event. SPL is suppose to delegate and oversee. It can’t hurt to miss one event for personal matters. And I like your reasoning about if he got sick.

You're gonna think I am pulling a fast one, but really I tapped the plus one, nothing, tapped again, hit the minus.

 

We still should allow a little room for grey area. Is this a "sick day"? Or, is this a shift in priorities? Has this happened with other SPL's before? SMs can be a bit like ground bees, the nest gets stirred by the lead hiker, but the guy taking up the rear gets the stings.

[ItsBrian]

You're gonna think I am pulling a fast one, but really I tapped the plus one, nothing, tapped again, hit the minus.

 

We still should allow a little room for grey area. Is this a "sick day"? Or, is this a shift in priorities? Has this happened with other SPL's before? SMs can be a bit like ground bees, the nest gets stirred by the lead hiker, but the guy taking up the rear gets the stings.

You're going to see my rep as -200 pretty soon because of you  .

[ItsBrian]

You're gonna think I am pulling a fast one, but really I tapped the plus one, nothing, tapped again, hit the minus.

 

We still should allow a little room for grey area. Is this a "sick day"? Or, is this a shift in priorities? Has this happened with other SPL's before? SMs can be a bit like ground bees, the nest gets stirred by the lead hiker, but the guy taking up the rear gets the stings.

Anyway, responding to the 2nd part of your post, I've seen other members shift priorities, never someone in a key leadership role though. I can understand why he wants to change his priority. Also, this is Boy Scouts... not the military and so...

[Ranman328]

You're gonna think I am pulling a fast one, but really I tapped the plus one, nothing, tapped again, hit the minus.

 

We still should allow a little room for grey area. Is this a "sick day"? Or, is this a shift in priorities? Has this happened with other SPL's before? SMs can be a bit like ground bees, the nest gets stirred by the lead hiker, but the guy taking up the rear gets the stings.

Based on the father's information, it appears the only one having a problem is the SM.  My comment about calling out sick would be a last minute issue they would have to deal with.  Again, based on the father's information, the SPL will still be planning and participating in everything except going to the event.  It would be the same thing if he got sick or had an emergency and couldn't go.  Doesn't really matter why or if it is sick or whatever.  My point is if he had to miss the event for whatever emergency or reason, he still planned it and couldn't go.  My question is, would the SM still request his resignation?  Seems petty to me.  Again, my $0.02.

[krikkitbot]

I think the SM is way out of line or we are not getting the full story. I guess it could also be both, SM is out of line AND we are not getting the full story.

 

It sounds like the SPL has been proactive in making sure the contingencies are covered. Kudos.

 

What is the event? Is it a camping trip or COH? Is it the annual fundraiser for the troop that depends on the SPL to lead? I don't think that asking a youth to resign nor forcing a new election is in order either way. This might be best elevated to the Committee Chair. 

[Eagledad]

One of my marketing phrases I gave to visiting Webelos parents is: "The troop program is the real world scaled down to a boys size. We want our scouts to learn from their many experiences of making decisions so that when they grow up, they can deal with situations like waking up to a sick wife, three hungry kids and a boss calling about a deadline. 

 

Barry

[fred johnson]

My prayers and sympathies to you and your family.  

 

This is a very hard and difficult situation from all perspectives.  I doubt we are hearing the full story such as does the troop have position specific performance expectations or are there other issues.  But even then, if the SPL has been doing "okay" for five months and needs to assign an activity / campout to an ASPL or other scout, that's always fine.  Conflicts happen.  It's about how the situation is handled.  So your situation does not seem abnormal.  

 

The reason I say we are not hearing the full story is that taking away a position at 5.5 months is generally bad and tacky.  If election is less than a month or two away, taking away the position usually NOT about keeping the troop running smoothly.  It usually happens because the SM views past performance as bad and/or wants the scout to not get full advancement credit for the position.  As such, it seems there is more to the issue.  

 

Heck, BSA itself publishes guidance that says POR and "active" issues can be qualified because a scout has other competing commitments.  AND, that we should celebrate it as it produces well rounded young men.

[ChristianDad]

I think the SM is way out of line or we are not getting the full story. I guess it could also be both, SM is out of line AND we are not getting the full story.

 

It sounds like the SPL has been proactive in making sure the contingencies are covered. Kudos.

 

What is the event? Is it a camping trip or COH? Is it the annual fundraiser for the troop that depends on the SPL to lead? I don't think that asking a youth to resign nor forcing a new election is in order either way. This might be best elevated to the Committee Chair. 

I've tried to give you the full story the best I can. My intention in posting here was more to help me understand if the SM's request would be considered normal in the Scouting world. Because I told him (calmly) that I "strongly disagreed." But thinking about it, I wanted to make sure I wasn't opposing some obvious Scouting ethos I was missing. I spoke with the SM for one full hour with my son and wife there. I asked the SM to tell me if there were any other problems I'm not aware of. The answer was no. His only indication was that my son does allow some of the "stronger" willed boys to dominate a meeting too much. But he said it wouldn't be anything that he would ask for resignation.

 

I'll say my wife and I still respect him as a SM. He does so much work for the troop. The conversation was cordial and calm. But I'm still somewhat floored by it. 

 

The event is a boat regatta and camping out. Context: the troop camps out a lot and the only absence may son experienced this year was because he was working as a counselor at the Boy Scout camp. He did so for 5 weeks, which the Boy Scouts asked him to do last minute. 

[ChristianDad]

My prayers and sympathies to you and your family.  

 

This is a very hard and difficult situation from all perspectives.  I doubt we are hearing the full story such as does the troop have position specific performance expectations or are there other issues.  But even then, if the SPL has been doing "okay" for five months and needs to assign an activity / campout to an ASPL or other scout, that's always fine.  Conflicts happen.  It's about how the situation is handled.  So your situation does not seem abnormal.  

 

The reason I say we are not hearing the full story is that taking away a position at 5.5 months is generally bad and tacky.  If election is less than a month or two away, taking away the position usually NOT about keeping the troop running smoothly.  It usually happens because the SM views past performance as bad and/or wants the scout to not get full advancement credit for the position.  As such, it seems there is more to the issue.  

 

Heck, BSA itself publishes guidance that says POR and "active" issues can be qualified because a scout has other competing commitments.  AND, that we should celebrate it as it produces well rounded young men.

 

Thanks. I have asked the following in person and in writing: "Things I don't know that would help. Are there bylaws that would make it clear? Does he have them? Did he take an oath and if so, what does it say?" This was after the SM made an issue of it. I wanted to know what commitments my son had actually made, and whether he was in fact being untrustworthy. The SM didn't answer the e-mail: He said we should meet in person. He didn't answer in person either. 

 

The SM says the issue for him is the message it sends to future SPL's. 

[Sentinel947]

 

No need to use curse words here... 

 

 

As for the OP:

 

I think your Sons arrangements are acceptable and he'd be meeting his obligations in our Troop. As a Catholic Scouter myself I'm sympathetic to what you are trying to accomplish with your son. 

 

As for the SM, if wants to force your son to resign I suppose he can, but he must still count your son's term of position of responsibility for advancement up to that point. 

 

I think that he's being foolish. He reminds me of the sports coaches and band directors in my town that demand the boys make all of the practices, games, retreats all season AND offseason, or they will be benchwarmers. 

[Col. Flagg]

What provisions do BSA rules or policies have an adult removing a scout in good standing from a youth-elected leadership position?

 

Seriously he has ZERO grounds for removing him unless there's a pre-arranged and documented requirements for the SPL to be at said event. Otherwise it's yet another adult sticking his schnoz in to some place he shouldn't.