Daughter of Eagle Scout Perspective

[Eagle1993]

Here is a wonderful opinion piece from a daughter of a Boy Scout camp ranger.

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/ldboyscout/its-2017-let-girls-be-boy-scouts?utm_term=.ciJbzA1xL#.edg43GvpM

[qwazse]

Here is a wonderful opinion piece from a daughter of a Boy Scout camp ranger.

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/ldboyscout/its-2017-let-girls-be-boy-scouts?utm_term=.ciJbzA1xL#.edg43GvpM

"... I wanted to learn wilderness survival skills: how to ... throw a tomahawk ...."

 

Gotta say, there's nothing as viscerally hair-raising the back of a guy's neck like seeing a couple venturing females land square on the log in the axe-throwing yard.

[Eagle1993]

Adding link to article by Sydney Ireland

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/opinions/im-a-girl-ive-been-part-of-the-boy-scouts-for-years-its-time-i-become-a-member/2017/08/25/a6d61ea8-89c1-11e7-961d-2f373b3977ee_story.html

[Col. Flagg]

Sydney should put her ample energy in to changing GIRL Scouts and leave Boy Scouts alone.

 

We all want things we can't have.

[qwazse]

Sydney should put her ample energy in to changing GIRL Scouts and leave Boy Scouts alone.

We all want things we can't have.

Although I disagree with CR's -1, I have seen how hard that is for girls to do.

I think the scouters who have gone rogue forming their coed troops have done so out of weariness trying to make the GS/USA work for the girls in thier community (who are like Miss Ireland but too far from a Canadian border to get bling for their enthusiasm). It doesn't make sense why the organization is so intransigent. Except perhaps these outdoor obsessed, patrol method focused girls are seen as intimidating to the majority of girls (or moms?) in the GS/USA.

Edited August 27, 2017 by qwazse

[HelpfulTracks]

Miss Ireland's story is a curious one that I have had reservations about since I first heard it sometime back.

 

First, her focus seems to have changed over time. In earlier articles I read, her focus was primarily, if not entirely, focused on her desire to be an Eagle Scout. That as a goal for any Scout is admirable, but when I hear that as the primary or only reason to join, then I have to wonder how much the Scout really wants to be a Scout versus pad a resume. As her father seems to be quoted in one article (the article is poorly written so its difficult to be sure), that leaders come from earning Eagle. I believe leaders earn Eagle, to me a not so subtle difference.

 

Second, in one early interview she said she has never even tried to join GSUSA and that she doesn't know much about it. Then how does she know what GSUSA in her area offers? It would seem that NYC would have a good many GSUSA Troops, surely one fit her needs, and if not her family clearly has the means and drive to start one. After all, traveling over 500 miles routinely to be a member Scouts Canada would seem far more time and money intensive than starting a GS Troop that fit you needs.

 

Third, based on her statements I am pretty sure she is not in Venturing. Again, that would seem to be the first place to start, even if you still wanted to have Boy Scouts opened to girls. If your goals are the skills and leadership that BSA offers, then Venturing has that too.

 

Finally, Miss Ireland is already 16. Within the next few months, if she hasn't already, she will cross a time line that will make achieving Eagle Scout impossible. But I keep hearing about what she has already done in Scouting, like "earning merit badges," and "serving as Patrol Leader." I have a gut feeling that an effort will be made to allow her to "earn" Eagle via waivers of some type.

 

Perhaps I am wrong on all counts, maybe someone else can enlighten me.

[qwazse]

@@HelpfulTracks, regarding your 1st point, I do believe that many families and scouters have a misplaced elevation of Eagle rank. Your distinction is not subtle at all, IMHO. Eagle recognizes boys who decide to develop leadership and acquire skills above and beyond the majority of boys in he BSA. I've heard from veterans, especially those who entered military service with no experience, that this distinction is manifest at boot camp and continues for some time into a soldiers or sailors career. But I've also heard from other fields that it's a brand they trust.

 

Regarding your second point, one does not "find" a GS troop so much as is assigned a troop. I've experienced that personally as my wife was told point blank that my daughter could not join one of the troops that hiked and camped regularly. She even had friends in one of the other troops. The troop she was allowed to join had a mom who swore to never camp far from an outlet for a curling iron. That lasted for nigh two months, then she quit. Needless to say, this explicit and encouraged policy prevents any possible way to determine if one method of girl scouting is more attractive than the other. On the other hand, most of us in BSA know that advancement and outdoors are the most sought after methods from scouts and their families (so much so that this blog exists thanks to scouters trying to bring other methods into balance). I suppose if my daughter started scouting first, I might have been able to help Mrs. Q tilt at windmills, but Son #1 was full-on in sports and cub scouts, and my camping gear (down to the plaid oil cloth for picnic tables) was very welcome there.

 

Regarding your third point, the skills and leadership delivered via the Venturing are in no way comparable to those delivered in Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. There are no adults in my crew who are dedicated to teaching my venturers first class skills. That entirely is dependent on the first class scouts being willing to teach those skills. (Mine had, but is the distinct minority of crews in my council.) Match that with many a scouter's disapproval of venturing scheduling conflicts, etc ... And I'm not surprised that a trip to Canada is the preferred option.

 

I'd like to think Miss Ireland's idealism would not allow her to accept some waiver (which would be historic, if offered). Why would a scout accept an award that other scouts cannot receive by virtue of demographic? Oh, wait. No-wait Eagle Palms. Nevermind.

[Sentinel947]

The BSA has massively oversold Eagle to the detriment of the program. Parents view it as a golden bullet to life success.

 

As for Sydney, its incredibly hard to make organizations change course. My troop took 4 years to adopt patrol method principles fully.

[Eagle1993]

@@HelpfulTracks. I think Sydney's goal is clear... change BSA policy to allow girls to join and obtain the Eagle Scout rank. (I agree that Eagle Scout changed from a rank earned during the course of scouting to an end goal of its own... and I agree that is not a great change). Since that is her goal, joining Venturers or GSUSA won't help. She did join the Canadian Scouts during the summers and earned their highest rank... but her focus is Eagle in BSA. I expect she will continue to "earn" merit badges and take on appropriate leadership posts until she completes the requirements for Eagle Scout. I do wonder what she will do then. Will she file a lawsuit or use her experience to apply public pressure on the BSA. Perhaps the experience will be enough for her and she won't press for official recognition. Given the current Supreme Court makeup I don't expect any lawsuit being successful in forcing BSA to admit girls. I also don't see the same public backlash the BSA experienced from the LGBTQ community and supporters. So I doubt BSA will change its policy due to her actions. I think her goal is clear and has been consistent. She is attempting to follow civil rights icons such as Rosa Parks by forcing the issue into the courts or public discussion. We will have to wait and see where this ends.

[Col. Flagg]

Its hard to make GSUSA change because they don't want to.

 

Push BSA hard enough and they'll cry "uncle" over a splinter.

 

Miss Ireland knows which organization to bully. So does her lawyer parents.

[Rick_in_CA]

I just read an article about girls and Eagle rank. It says that the US Army will automatically promote an enlisted recruit by a grade once they complete boot camp if they are an Eagle Scout. But not if they are female and have the Gold Award. I have no idea if this is (currently) true. If it is, then that is a case for allowing girls to earn eagle, or to eliminate the benefits the US military offers eagle scouts (unless it's also offered to gold scouts?).

 

Anyone know if any of this is true?

Edited August 28, 2017 by Rick_in_CA

[qwazse]

I just read an article about girls and Eagle rank. It says that the US Army will automatically promote an enlisted recruit by a grade once they complete boot camp if they are an Eagle Scout. But not if they are female and have the Gold Award. I have no idea if this is (currently) true. If it is, then that is a case for allowing girls to earn eagle, or to eliminate the benefits the US military offers eagle scouts (unless it's also offered to gold scouts?).

 

Anyone know if any of this is true?

The USMC recognizes several awards, I forget which ones. I know two Gold awardees who enlisted, but I forgot to ask if that influenced their standing. Hopefully some recent recruits (or a current recruiter) will sound off.

The thinking is that recruits with particular skill sets and proven discipline are better prepared to handle more responsibility sooner in their military career.

[Hawkwin]

Both the Gold Award and Eagle are promoted to E-3.

[NJCubScouter]

Both the Gold Award and Eagle are promoted to E-3.

 

This site confirms that: https://www.thebalance.com/advanced-enlistment-rank-3354305

 

It is not an official military site but it seems to know what it is talking about.

[Peregrinator]

I just read an article about girls and Eagle rank. It says that the US Army will automatically promote an enlisted recruit by a grade once they complete boot camp if they are an Eagle Scout. But not if they are female and have the Gold Award. I have no idea if this is (currently) true. If it is, then that is a case for allowing girls to earn eagle, or to eliminate the benefits the US military offers eagle scouts (unless it's also offered to gold scouts?).

 

Anyone know if any of this is true?

 

Gold Award holders are treated the same as Eagle Scouts at least with respect to military enlistment - both can enlist at pay grade E-2 (Army, Air Force, Marines) or E-3 (Navy).