More BSA changes before World Jambo 2019

[RememberSchiff]

That was then ... since then we have had the Mars Climate Orbiter measurement failure and the need for part and tool compatibility in the International Space Station. NASA went metric 10 years ago.

 

https://www.space.com/3332-nasa-finally-metric.html 

 

Bought a John Deere tractor and was surprised, yet prepared,  that all the fasteners are metric.

[Oldscout448]

On the subject of the  Mars Orbiter   did we measure the crater it made on impact in meters or feet?

[RememberSchiff]

I don't think it's debris or impact crater was ever identified.

[Ankylus]

I wouldn't mind seeing a change to the uniform - something classic (no more epaulets - we aren't the French Gendarme), dump the cargo pockets on the shirt - and let's change the color from drab tan to something else - it looks like a cheap imitation of the National Park Service uniforms - just a lot less dynamic.  It's just doesn't scream out "active".  I like the darker green of the Maine Warden Service uniforms.  Dump the convertible pants with the zip-off legs and cargo pockets.  Cargo pants are so Old Navy 1990's, and the zip off legs are fine for activities in the outdoors but don't look good with the uniform shirts or at meetings and in parades.  Frankly, blue jeans look sharper.  Finally, it's way beyond time for the BSA to officially sanction an activity/Class B uniform - They could easily choose four or five standard polo-style shirt colors and develop a network of shirt providers that are licensed to use BSA imagery and can customize basic shirts to meet a unit's need (Troop numbers, community, etc.) - CINTAS is a well-respected national firm and their pricing is pretty reasonable. 

 

I find it amusing because I disagree with everything in it! (Except the epaulets...somebody must have had a last minute delusion.) And that amuses me because I think it highlights difficulty with the uniform. I can't imagine how hard it would be to get any kind of real consensus on uniforming issues. Please note that I don['t oppose any of that. I just disagree. As I always tell my children, there's no accounting for taste. Different people just like different things.

 

Just don't go back to the berets and the garters with red tabs. Please, please, please, don't to that. 

[Rick_in_CA]

I find it amusing because I disagree with everything in it! (Except the epaulets...somebody must have had a last minute delusion.) And that amuses me because I think it highlights difficulty with the uniform. I can't imagine how hard it would be to get any kind of real consensus on uniforming issues. Please note that I don['t oppose any of that. I just disagree. As I always tell my children, there's no accounting for taste. Different people just like different things.

 

Just don't go back to the berets and the garters with red tabs. Please, please, please, don't to that. 

When it comes to the uniform, I think as long as the boys feel comfortable wearing it while camping, then I will be happy. This whole silliness of "wear it in the car then change once we get to the campsite" stuff shows what's wrong with the current uniform. When I was a scout we wore the uniform at all times, backpacking, at summer camp (OK, not while swimming), at troop meetings, parades, etc. If we were doing scout stuff, it was in uniform (it was the old green uniform shirt). That is what we should see today. As a scouter, I wear my uniform proudly no mater the activity (OK, not swimming). I just wish it fit better, and wore better, and didn't have so many bits that can catch a pack strap, and I hate the convertible pants (if I want to wear shorts, I will wear shorts). And it costs too much for what you get. And it isn't made in America anymore (though has Made in America prices). Hmm, I guess I don't really like the current uniform much. Oh, and the dis-emphases on the necker - probably the most recognizable scout uniform element in the world! That should not be optional! There are countries where the only specified uniform elements for their scouts is the necker. And neckers are not neck ties! They should not be treated as such!!! If you are showing scouts how too roll and press their neckers, you are missing the point! <hey you kids, get off my lawn!>.

 

Actually I think part of the problem is that too many scouters think of the BSA uniform as the equivalent of a military dress uniform. It's not a dress uniform, and shouldn't be treated as such (So it's wrinkled, so what? You brought a ruler to the uniform inspection? Really? What is this, the marines? They are backpacking, who cares how "sharp" they look?).

[qwazse]

Tech questions!

On my scroll thru, did I just see the mention of a "virtual uniform"? Press a button and poof, no uniform? Wouldn't that border on , umm , modesty requirements?

 

It's worse than that. The uniform isn't worn by the scout. All he'd need is a bar-code tattooed someplace obvious. Although with facial recognition coming along, maybe not even that. Everyone else would have to wear special glasses. (Or, according to my futurist prediction, have a wireless reciever implanted in their cortex.) Those glasses would recognize the scout, and project the appropriate uniform to the wearer. (Kind of like how sports broadcasters project scrimmage lines on football fields these days.) This would solve the issue of Uniforming in he acquatics area.

On the subject of the Mars Orbiter did we measure the crater it made on impact in meters or feet?

Current estimates have the MCO never crashing. It either bounced off the atmosphere, much like a rock skipped on flat water, literally being lost in deep space ... or it inserted at such high velocity that it disintegrated. Any parts hitting the surface would hardly stir up dust, much less make a crater. The use of English measures of thrust per say weren't inherently problematic, but the ensuing lack of communication of units was (https://mars.nasa.gov/msp98/news/mco991110.html). Edited August 28, 2017 by qwazse

[fred johnson]

When it comes to the uniform, I think as long as the boys feel comfortable wearing it while camping, then I will be happy. This whole silliness of "wear it in the car then change once we get to the campsite" stuff shows what's wrong with the current uniform. When I was a scout we wore the uniform at all times, backpacking, at summer camp (OK, not while swimming), at troop meetings, parades, etc. If we were doing scout stuff, it was in uniform (it was the old green uniform shirt). That is what we should see today. As a scouter, I wear my uniform proudly no mater the activity (OK, not swimming). I just wish it fit better, and wore better, and didn't have so many bits that can catch a pack strap, and I hate the convertible pants (if I want to wear shorts, I will wear shorts). And it costs too much for what you get. And it isn't made in America anymore (though has Made in America prices). Hmm, I guess I don't really like the current uniform much. Oh, and the dis-emphases on the necker - probably the most recognizable scout uniform element in the world! That should not be optional! There are countries where the only specified uniform elements for their scouts is the necker. And neckers are not neck ties! They should not be treated as such!!! If you are showing scouts how too roll and press their neckers, you are missing the point! <hey you kids, get off my lawn!>.

 

Actually I think part of the problem is that too many scouters think of the BSA uniform as the equivalent of a military dress uniform. It's not a dress uniform, and shouldn't be treated as such (So it's wrinkled, so what? You brought a ruler to the uniform inspection? Really? What is this, the marines? They are backpacking, who cares how "sharp" they look?).

 

I love your post in many ways.  I agree that 

• Too expensive.  I can't afford to have more than one fully assembled uniform.  
• Too decorative to be functional.  
• Poor quality.  I've had letters fall off and seams fail.  Different versions have been quality hit and misses.  Mostly misses.  After the Centennial version, I've bought similar looking pants elsewhere.  The Centennial pants failed, were replaced and the replacements failed again.  Belt failed too.  ... And no, not because of my size.  
• Not comfortable to be worn all the time.  On really hot days, most versions just don't breath well enough.  Fit could be better too.  .
• Wear it in the car and then change out is silliness.  If changing out, then why do we have it.
• My old old red wool jacket was great.  It adjusted to the temperature up and down great.  Blocked wind.  The new green jacket I bought, just did not block the wind and did not keep me warm the same way.  

It seems we have two contradicting purposes for the uniform.  Functional and formal.  It almost seems like we need two.  One for formal events.  One for out and about.  

 

Anyway ... just sharing my frustration with the many scout uniforms I've bought over the years. 

 

I do admit I really miss the old pants from before the centennial version.  They were like wearing pajamas out in public.  They breathed well.  They were extremely durable.  You could wear them formally or all weekend in camp.  One of the best decisions I made was buying as many as possible when they went on clearance.  I can still find my adult sons wearing them at times because they are comfortable and still good 10 years later.

Edited August 28, 2017 by fred johnson

[Eagle94-A1]

When it comes to the uniform, I think as long as the boys feel comfortable wearing it while camping, then I will be happy. This whole silliness of "wear it in the car then change once we get to the campsite" stuff shows what's wrong with the current uniform. When I was a scout we wore the uniform at all times, backpacking, at summer camp (OK, not while swimming), at troop meetings, parades, etc. If we were doing scout stuff, it was in uniform (it was the old green uniform shirt). That is what we should see today. As a scouter, I wear my uniform proudly no mater the activity (OK, not swimming). 

 

 

Why not swimming? You do know that BSA made Uniform swim trunks at one time! 

 

Seriously though, BSA at one time made OD swim trunks that could be used as uniform trunk. An aquatics director I know had connections with national supply, and got them to make them. rationale is that aquatics staffs sometimes cannot make it to dinner on time and needed something they could just put a shirt on with. Plus it promoted uniformity of the aquatics staff. Didn't go far with that one.

 

Here's a link to a pair on sale on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/391703233196?chn=ps&dispItem=1

[NJCubScouter]

• Poor quality.  I've had letters fall off and seams fail.

I assume you mean the letters "BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA" over the pocket. They fall off all the time. I'd say that well over half the boys in the troop have at least one letter missing, and in most cases multiple letters.  It looks ridiculous.  I still have the "old" shirt (whatever version they were selling in 2000 when I bought it) and the letters are sewn on so they aren't going anywhere.  I guess the current shirts have the letters pressed on in some way, but not so they stay on very well.

 

I inherited one of the red jackets (probably purchased in the early 70's), they are great, but I need to lose about 10 more pounds before I can really wear it.  

[RememberSchiff]

I inherited one of the red jackets (probably purchased in the early 70's), they are great, but I need to lose about 10 more pounds before I can really wear it.  

 

But NJ if you go metric, you'll only have to lose 4.5 kilos.