Girl Scouts letter to BSA

[Col. Flagg]

@@Stosh. I was told the same... decision made, "local option". I asked when and was told they are working on logistics and it wasn't clear how they would handle the Boy Scout plan. I pressed a bit and was told they were looking at recharter time Jan 2018. Apparently there was a vote on white boards at the national meeting by SEs and >70% voted yes immediately pursue this. Who knows.. it wasn't the official statement but I trust the source.

Same. They didn't give much detail. Very vague. The mantra of "family camping" was used by council like they were encoding Ghandi or something. In our council facilities are a big issue and they clearly overlooked (and underestimated) the knowledge of the unit level folks. The vast majority felt they were being VERY condescending and dismissive. After all we live the program. Most of council staff merely work at it.

[walk in the woods]

Well, if the BSA wants to partner with another organization for girls programs, especially in the Boy Scout age range, with award programs similar to Eagle, it would appear we have an opening for a new partner. .

[John-in-KC]

WaPo is doing nothing more than re-writing buzzfeed.  Their article adds nothing of real value.

Washington Post now running with this with headline "Scout Wars...". Not much info beyond buzzfeed but did have some more comments about GSUSA comments and indicated they also have seen a major membership drop.

Edited August 23, 2017 by John-in-KC

[John-in-KC]

I think Dr Hannan is right though, this is the beginning of an attempt by BSA to take over GSUSA, using a bottom-up (get the members) approach.

[fred johnson]

BSA is not trying to take over GSUSA.  BSA has had a huge membership drop and they are competing with many other organizations for participants.  We are lucky that given the huge membership drop that 50% of the camps have not closed.  If it continues, BSA won't be able to afford it's own infrastructure.

 

GSUSA and BSA have never had a healthy relationship and have never been interested in working together.  GSUSA leaders (professional and volunteers) for a long time have snubbed BSA leaders as participating in a out-of-date, discriminatory program.  I find the GSUSA letter to be protesting a bit too much and definitely re-writing history.  

 

BSA has a good program.  Open it up as co-ed and they will get more actual members in the long run.

Edited August 23, 2017 by fred johnson

[Eagle1993]

For GSUSA to come out and

WaPo is doing nothing more than re-writing buzzfeed.  Their article adds nothing of real value.

I don't know if you actually read both articles but the Washington Post had separate quotes from both organizations than the buzzfeed article. In addition the Washington Post article covered both organizations membership drop and went into more depth.

 

The GSUSA letter was a laugh! GSUSA through their loyal reporters/advocates have attacked the BSA at every opportunity... just look at their preening after the BSA Trump speech. Their letter and behavior over BSA considering girls is incredibly disappointing. If you believe in your organization, promote it and be comfortable that you wil have members flock to join. This letter is an attempt to build a wall to in prison American girls and prevent them the freedom of choice in organizations that fit their needs!

[RememberSchiff]

The Dallas News printed this comment from BSA

 

BSA spokeswoman Effie Delimarkos said the organization has tried to initiate talks with the Girl Scouts for months and did speak with GSUSA leaders earlier this month about identifying "potential areas of opportunities for alignment in the future."

 

She said that while no new such programs had yet been implemented or decided, "based on numerous requests from families, the Boy Scouts has been exploring the benefits of bringing Scouting to every member of the family - boys and girls."

 

"We are disheartened to see the Girl Scouts pull away from the possibility of cooperation to help address the needs of today's busy families," she said.

 

In May, BSA leaders announced they would discuss adding more opportunities for girls at a meeting of chapter representatives at the organization's headquarters in Irving.

 

Attempts to reach BSA leadership Wednesday evening were unsuccessful.

 

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/boy-scouts/2017/08/23/girl-scouts-accuse-irving-based-boy-scouts-covert-campaign-recruit-girls-lift-falling-numbers

Edited August 24, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[Col. Flagg]

BSA has a good program. Open it up as co-ed and they will get more actual members in the long run.

Hmmm. We've been losing our key demographic (boys) which we service 2.2m of 25m. We've never been able to reverse that decline except one small blip in the early 2000s. And we think we can "get more actual members" -- essentially reversing this decades-long trend -- merely be repackaging the product that failed to do the same for boys?

 

"Family Camping" and all this other secret labeling of the movement to go coed is just lipstick on the same

Pig.

 

You have to GAIN 264,000 NEW members just to break even from last year's decline. So to get more members in any year you'd have to put pace the decline which is ~134,000 members leaving eac year.

 

It's a dream that this will reverse that trend...long run or short.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[Eagle1993]

NY Times reporting....

"The letter, which BuzzFeed reported about on Tuesday, came after a tense phone conversation last week between executives of both organizations, including Mr. Stephenson and Ms. Hopinkah Hannan, about possible substantial changes at the Boy Scouts. "

 

"...Ms. Hopinkah Hannan had a different interpretation of the phone call, according to her letter. She believed the Boy Scouts had already decided to encroach on the Girl Scouts’ territory."

 

"..,(BSA spokeswoman) She said that Boy Scouts executives had reached out to the Girl Scouts since the letter was sent and hope to set up another meeting to smooth over concerns. “There is an opportunity for both of us to do more,†she said."

[Col. Flagg]

Maybe this is why BSA is being so vague in their non-discussions. They wanted to leave open plausible deniability if called out.

 

Either BSA has gotten smarter (and being more devious is not a good thing for an organization that touts honesty, etc) or they are bungling through things again.

[Eagledad]

Anyone that watched the GSUSA over the last 40 or 50 years noticed that the organization has a lot of support from the womens rights groups. Way to much in some peoples' opinion. However, the GSUSA was noticeably silent during the BSA gay drama when they have the weight to apply pressure. Nothing official, but the rumors were that so long as the BSA stayed away from the GSUSA membership, the ladies would play nice. I wonder if we are about to see weight of their influence.

 

So, on a different note;  I don't know how these things work at the National level, but is there anything that shows the public who works for National and describes their responsibilities? Can't the volunteers apply any pressure for accountability? WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?

 

Barry

[RememberSchiff]

 

So, on a different note;  I don't know how these things work at the National level, but is there anything that shows the public who works for National and describes their responsibilities? Can't the volunteers apply any pressure for accountability? WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?

 

Barry

 

Exactly.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kbTbg00AJU

[Eagle1993]

However, the GSUSA was noticeably silent during the BSA gay drama when they have the weight to apply pressure. Nothing official, but the rumors were that so long as the BSA stayed away from the GSUSA membership, the ladies would play nice. I wonder if we are about to see weight of their influence.

 

Barry

While officially quiet their volunteers and employees were vocal pointing out their admission differences and their supporters in the media used this to trash the BSA. They still do it today. I was at my daughters new scout meeting and the question of fees came up. The Girl Scout leader said she didn't know yet as it is a new troop. We threw out some ranges and in response to one of the higher ranges the Girl Scout executive laughed and said they weren't the Boy Scouts. In our discussions with parents for our pack we have always been positive when talking about GSUSA.

 

GSUSA must tread carefully here. BSA can simply state they are opening up another opportunity for girls. I think GSUSA and their supporters will argue this is bad for girls. They are already tweeting news releases pushing this idea and Liberal news organizations (Slate and Daily Beast) and already have opinion pieces on this. I think emphasizing the positive aspects of the GSUSA and girl only organization is fine. The letter from GSUSA went well beyond and attacked even the option of another organization offering an opportunity for girls. I'm concerned that even our venturing girls will feel like traders based on GSUSA's response. That tactic sickens me. We are both organizations with different strengths and GSUSA should remain strong regardless of some girls joining BSA (if that occurs). No organization should attack the BSA (other than our own existing charters) if the BSA decides to offer more programs to girls.

[fred johnson]

We are both organizations with different strengths and GSUSA should remain strong regardless of some girls joining BSA (if that occurs). No organization should attack the BSA (other than our own existing charters) if the BSA decides to offer more programs to girls.

 

I agree.  BSA and GSUSA are different programs.  Gender membership is one issue, but the fundamentals of the program are very different.  BSA should stay focused on the achieving it's goals (physical fitness, citizenship, leadership, etc) through a strong outdoor program.  That's why I value scouts.  It's not the gender issue.  I value having my sons learn through experiences that stretch their comfort zones. 

[MattHiggins]

Oh man (no pun intended), do what you have to do, BSA, as far going co-ed goes, but whatever you do, don't combine with GSUSA. My daughter was in the program and while the two organizations, in theory, have similar goals, they share just about nothing in common when it comes to actual program

Edited August 24, 2017 by MattHiggins