Girl Scouts react to Boy Scouts considering girls

[RememberSchiff]

http://www.kcrg.com/content/news/Girl-Scouts-directors-react-to-Boy-Scouts-considering-including-girls-440436383.html

 

Iowa - The Boy Scouts of America are considering opening its program to elementary school girls.

 

The Northeast Iowa Boy Scout council says they're asking troop leaders whether that seems like a good idea. Directors say they're considering opening up their program to girls as a way to make scouting more inclusive for the whole family.

 

The Northeast Iowa Boy Scout council says it's pretty common for a Cub Scout’s sister to tag along for Boy Scout activities. That's why The Boy Scouts of America are considering offering programs for elementary school girls that coincide with what the boys are doing.

 

But Girl Scouts of Eastern Iowa and Western Illinois CEO, Diane Nelson says Girl Scouts already provide that.

 

"Our research shows that when girls are in an environment with other girls, they're more likely to raise their hand. They are more likely to speak up. They are more likely to voice their opinions," said Nelson.

 

Over the past several years, Girl Scout directors have closed camps throughout the region. Nelson says those closures were financially based and not indicative of fewer outdoor programs for girls.

 

"We may not have the facilities that we've had in the past, but we still and will continue to always have the program," said Nelson.

 

 

Link above includes video. Girl Scout leaders spoke on camera, Boy Scout Council would not.

Edited August 15, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[Gwaihir]

At least the Girl Scouts are brave. 

[RememberSchiff]

Yes, but at least Boy Scouts were kind in not bringing up cooties. 

[Eagledad]

 

 

"Our research shows that when girls are in an environment with other girls, they're more likely to raise their hand. They are more likely to speak up. They are more likely to voice their opinions," said Nelson.

 

 

I'm curious of what the progressives on this forum, who claim all males scouting is sexist, think of this quote from the Girls Scouts.

 

Barry

[RememberSchiff]

I doubt my sons would call me progressive, but to paraphrase that quote

 

Birds of a feather gathered together are more likely to chirp. 

 

Sounds true enough, but not real world. We should teach kids how to politely and productively interact in the melting pot.

Edited August 15, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[Gwaihir]

I doubt my sons would call me progressive, but to paraphrase that quote

 

Birds of a feather gathered together are more likely to chirp.  Sounds true enough, but not real world. We should teach kids how to politely and productively interact in the melting pot.

 

and yet here we are, Scouters who were Boy Scouts, all successfully interacting in a melting pot in our adult lives.  So the idea that the single-gender character development program that was the Boy Scouts (and Cub Scouts) of America was detrimental to that concept is rather baseless. 

[RememberSchiff]

and yet here we are, Scouters who were Boy Scouts, all successfully interacting in a melting pot in our adult lives.  So the idea that the single-gender character development program that was the Boy Scouts (and Cub Scouts) of America was detrimental to that concept is rather baseless. 

 

Some days more than others, but never two days in a row on scouter.com 

[Eagledad]

I doubt my sons would call me progressive, but to paraphrase that quote

 

Birds of a feather gathered together are more likely to chirp.  Sounds true enough, but not real world. We should teach kids how to politely and productively interact in the melting pot.

And your expertise on the subject? Because my child psychologist college professor friend whole heartily disagrees.

 

I think as a culture we are failing miserably because how does a person who lives up to the oath and law at all times not know how to politely and productively interact? Someone else here truly believe that groups who are together for a single interest are dangerous because all they do is conspire against other groups. Is that what Badon Powell  was doing by creating BOY SCOUTS. Our culture is a mess. Do we really believe that boys and girls will learn better behavior simply because they are mixed? Especially with adults who think that being coed inspires better behavior than practicing the oath and law. No wonder National is lost.

 

Barry

[RememberSchiff]

And your expertise on the subject? Because my child psychologist college professor friend whole heartily disagrees.

 

I think as a culture we are failing miserably because how does a person who lives up to the oath and law at all times not know how to politely and productively interact? Someone else here truly believe that groups who are together for a single interest are dangerous because all they do is conspire against other groups. Is that what Badon Powell  was doing by creating BOY SCOUTS. Our culture is a mess. Do we really believe that boys and girls will learn better behavior simply because they are mixed? Especially with adults who think that being coed inspires better behavior than practicing the oath and law. No wonder National is lost.

 

Barry

 

That's why he teaches college.   Kids should be taught to self-advocate.  I'm a Dad whose younger son has learning disabilities as confirmed by a full neuro-psych testing (two days) performed every three years.  My son attended a special needs school (coed) and perhaps the most important tool he was given was self-advocacy. So he will politely speak up and ask a teacher to slow down, repeat, help after school, comment,...ditto with everyone else. Who is in the group does not matter to him nor should it.  Four long years later but still on an IEP, he is now in a regular school and doing great.

 

You lost me in second paragraph.

Edited August 15, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[John-in-KC]

They're reacting because this may mean competition.  Remember, fees+fundraising=salaries for professional staff.

[John-in-KC]

When I speak of delivering the program at FOS gigs, I mean "this money turns on the lights, pays the bills, and pays the staff their salaries at the Council office...

[qwazse]

And your expertise on the subject? Because my child psychologist college professor friend whole heartily disagrees.....

Funny thing about psychologists ... they love showing differences in means, but they don't disclose much about variation in the data. (My income capitalizes on that weakness.) So, we know how average kids learn in an average learning environment, but ...

 

Scouts (girl or boy) aren't average. Nor is the environment we provide them. A crisp night under the stars hardly cares about your sex. The rain falls on the progressive and the reactionary.

 

We have discussed elsewhere that turning scouts into school undermined this nations approach to scouting. We would do well to apply with caution our understanding of book-learning to scouting.

Edited August 15, 2017 by qwazse

[Eagledad]

That's why he teaches college.   Kids should be taught to self-advocate.  I'm a Dad whose younger son has learning disabilities as confirmed by a full neuro-psych testing (two days) performed every three years.  My son attended a special needs school (coed) and perhaps the most important tool he was given was self-advocacy. So he will politely speak up and ask a teacher to slow down, repeat, help after school, comment,...ditto with everyone else. Who is in the group does not matter to him nor should it.  Four long years later but still on an IEP, he is now in a regular school and doing great.

 

You lost me in second paragraph.

You lost me on the first. My expert says that pre puberesent youth (both GIRLS and boy) learn 90% (give or take) of their behavior by watching dominating role models. AND that effect doesn't have near as much impact when the role models are the opposite gender, which is why I'm not in favor of female scoutmaster for a boys patrol.

 

It's no like this stuff is new, there are literally hundreds of studies that support the high impact of girls and boys learning when they aren't in coed groups. I can only conclude that emotion drive adults to act in the against nature.

 

Even worse is the idea that the only way a boy can politely and productively interact with girls is mixing them together on campouts. That makes no sense to me at all.

 

Barry

 

Barry

[EmberMike]

I'm curious of what the progressives on this forum, who claim all males scouting is sexist, think of this quote from the Girls Scouts.

 

Barry

 

Just for clarity, and assuming by your use of commas I'm correct in reading this statement to suggest that all progressives on this forum claim all male scouting is sexist, not all progressives think that. 

 

There are many reasons discussed by us progressives on this forum for wanting co-ed scouting. It's not all about thinking male-only scouting is sexist, a viewpoint that I personally do not share. 

[Eagledad]

Funny thing about psychologists ... they love showing differences in means, but they don't disclose much about variation in the data. (My income capitalizes on that weakness.) So, we know how average kids learn in an average learning environment, but ...

 

Scouts (girl or boy) aren't average. Nor is the environment we provide them. A crisp night under the stars hardly cares about your sex. The rain falls on the progressive and the reactionary.

 

We have discussed elsewhere that turning scouts into school undermined this nations approach to scouting. We would do well to apply with caution our understanding of book-learning to scouting.

My friend is also a Scoutmaster of a very boy run program who teaches ages and stages for the council. He is an Eagle Scout with other youth honors, so he clearly understand how the outdoors works. But as I stated earlier, he says the role modeling aspect of growth is hugely important to troop age scouts. Which is why the Adult part of the methods is so important to the program. He explained that while female ASMs are fine for a program, the youth brain searches for role models to learn behavior and tends to discount role models that don't appear import to that youths future. A scoutmaster is by default considered the dominant role model (for both Boy Scouts and Girls Scouts). It's fairly complicated, but his point is that Troops should be very picky about selecting adult leaders because the impact and nature of their son's behavior growth depends greatly on those role models.

 

But what I find offensive in the tone of the discussion is the personal opinions are driving policy changes over accepted professional practices. It's not like Scouting has never talked about role models, character building, and scouting values of oath and law. Now all that is suddenly nonsense. Quit honestly, I rather folks just admit they support the liberal doctrine and don't really care about growth and building character. I can't can accept that type of resoning because at least it's honest.

 

Barry