Eagle94-A1 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Interesting, since there is no co-ed proposal being discussed. There is however an discussion on making Scouting accessable for families. With all due respect @@RichardB, We all know that if a "Parallel Program" comes about, we will have "paper girl units" and they will be integrated with the boys. Heck I already have one parent waiting for the announcement so his daughter can join. From a discussion :Financially it's two expensive to have two sets of camping equipment and having two sets of summer camp and weekend camp outs. Plus add the time committement for the Scouters, i.e. having two sets of weekely meetings, camp outs, and summer camps. Full blown coed is the only way. I am assuming that National isn't thinking that way, but just saying "Family" implies an image to inexperienced adults that doesn't align with the program manuals. I'm not sure the image can be helped. It's hard enough changing parents perception of a patrol method program after coming from a Cub Scout experience. Now we are changing to a likely program of brother, sister, mom and dad all campout together in the Troop. Bringing along little brother and sister cub scouts is easily going to be considered an acceptable part of the program as well. qwazse is right on target. Barry YES FAMILY SCOUTING DOES IMPLY CUB SCOUT CAMPING AT THE BOY SCOUT LEVEL!!!!!!! My troop is currently dealing with former Cub parents and them treating their Boy Scouts like Cubs. Heck one mom was ticked off at me and left with her son when I told her that if her son didn't pitch his own tent and sleep in it, it would not count as a camp out for him. And we had some parents let their boys sneak into their tents TWICE now, and we told both the Scouts and parents they can not do that anymore. If BSA really means family camping instead of coed Scouting with the terms "making Scouting accessible to families," I will stay as long as my boys are willing to stay. But with all the interference these new parents caused this weekend, Oldest is ticked off and would probably leave or join the one troop in the district that has already stated they will NOT allow females to camp at all as it is against their CO's beliefs. Heck EVEN IF THEY DO NOT ALLOW ME TO SERVE AS A VOLUNTEER DUE TO MY FAITH, I WOULD LET MY BOYS JOIN THAT TROOP IF BOY SCOUTS BECOMES "FAMILY SCOUTS." (caps for emphasis.) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmberMike Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Where is all of the concern about troop-level family camping coming from? Maybe I'm missing something, but nothing I've read or heard leads me to think that family camping would be welcome on troop outings. All I've seen so far is talk about family scouting primarily aimed at the pack level. I really never even considered that co-ed troop camping would be anything other than what it is now except with girls along doing the same things the boys do, plus a female leader. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I really never even considered that co-ed troop camping would be anything other than what it is now except with girls along doing the same things the boys do, plus a female leader. I don't understanding your post Mike, doesn't a coed program include dad (male leader) and Mom (female leader) with their son and daughter scouts all in the same troop? Is bringing Tiger Cub sister or brother really much of a stretch for a family scouting program? Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardB Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Accessible for families does not equal family camping. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred johnson Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Local option, Eagle rank is still under discussion. I'd hope Eagle would not be under discussion. It's already bad enough that boys in Venturing can earn Eagle, but their equally registered female members can't. IMHO, not allowing girls to earn Eagle would just continue the pain. The best change is done structured and planned, but relatively fast. Drawing these things out just continues the damage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred johnson Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Nothing about CO's having a choice. COs always have a choice to select members that reflects their boundaries and values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Flagg Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Accessible for families does not equal family camping. Exactly what DOES in mean then? As far as I know all BSA programs are accessible to families in that they accept all boys of the right age. So please explain EXACTLY in plain English what "accessible to families" means. Mike sure didn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmberMike Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I don't understanding your post Mike, doesn't a coed program include dad (male leader) and Mom (female leader) with their son and daughter scouts all in the same troop? Is bringing Tiger Cub sister or brother really much of a stretch for a family scouting program? Barry If mom and dad are both leaders (which they can already be), we're really only adding a troop-age daughter to the mix, potentially. I haven't seen anywhere suggesting that pack-age kids would be welcome on troop outings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashTagScouts Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Accessible for families does not equal family camping. It doesn't officially pout that stamp on it, but it also does nothing to make it not become the reality. If the whole conversation is about accessibility, and not having to have parents "be in two places at once" (my summary of everything Mr. Surbaugh presented), then yes, you will have units making meetings and outings joint between male and female troops, and then you will have all the pressure of "why not allow my younger children to come" or "if my younger children cannot come, then how can both parents really participate?". As I posted on other threads on this topic, the unit my son belongs to already does this half the year because of the pressures, and now the flood gate will open. I've been very cautious of even discussing all of what is going on with my son, but he already is ready to finish eagle and jump ship simply because of the "family camping" aspect- Scout outings no longer feel special, and feel constraining to him because the family outings have to be set up such as the whole event has to allow for inclusion of all ages/abilities. The coed piece is less concerning to him- he has no problem with joining a coed Venturing unit that is all about adventure and cares little about Ventuing advancement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashTagScouts Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I'd hope Eagle would not be under discussion. It's already bad enough that boys in Venturing can earn Eagle, but their equally registered female members can't. IMHO, not allowing girls to earn Eagle would just continue the pain. The best change is done structured and planned, but relatively fast. Drawing these things out just continues the damage. It never really had to be that way. It's only my opinion, but the BSA frankly never did enough to really make the awareness of the Venturing Silver Award was (and even less so since changing ti the Summit Award). The Silver Award was, again, my own opinion, even more of an accomplishment than Eagle for what was involved, and the Summit Award is still a pretty darn big accomplishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) If mom and dad are both leaders (which they can already be), we're really only adding a troop-age daughter to the mix, potentially. I haven't seen anywhere suggesting that pack-age kids would be welcome on troop outings. Hashtagscouts explained it perfectly. Barry Edited August 14, 2017 by Eagledad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 We've have similar issues with my troop. At first it was not a problem. Now it is because it seems as if everyone is bringing their kids. At least when my youngest went camping in June, he was a Webelos. If it wasn't't for that fact, he would not have went. The parents I mentioned earlier brought their Tiger with them and let him lose. Yes he was all over, thankfully not in a canoe. Sad thing is that these parents are volunteers, and do not see what the problem is or how they are hurting their sons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I'd hope Eagle would not be under discussion. It's already bad enough that boys in Venturing can earn Eagle, but their equally registered female members can't. IMHO, not allowing girls to earn Eagle would just continue the pain. The best change is done structured and planned, but relatively fast. Drawing these things out just continues the damage. I agree with you that girls should be able to earn Eagle (in their separate "parallel" units or in Crews, having first made First Class in a "parallel troop.") I do not agree that it shouldn't be discussed. If it isn't discussed, it's not going to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred johnson Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I do not agree that it shouldn't be discussed. If it isn't discussed, it's not going to change. I agree discussion should happen. I just fear drawing out the discussion for a significantly long time. The time of change can be damaging and painful. Letting it go too long just continues the pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) Interesting, since there is no co-ed proposal being discussed. Well, there clearly is a "coed proposal" being considered, at the Cub Scout level. Your boss may not want to call it "coed" and may justify that based on the fact that dens will not be coed. But a pack with boy dens and girl dens is a coed pack. (Which I actually don't have a problem with, at the Cub Scout level, as a matter of local option.) As far as the Boy Scout level is concerned, the "parallel" units that are being discussed are not coed by design, but there are some people in here who think that boy-troops and girl-troops will quickly join together and effectively become coed troops. Apparently some local leaders are already planning to do so. I am willing to give National the benefit of the doubt that coed troops is not the plan, but in some places it may be the result - just as there are now, in effect, female Cub Scouts in some places, who are registered through LFL. There is however an discussion on making Scouting accessable for families. I rarely point out spelling errors on the Internet because its usually an obnoxious thing to do (and I am not infallible typo-wise), but if you are going to quote a buzz-phrase from your own organization, you really should learn how to spell it correctly. Your boss knows how to spell "accessible." More importantly, please don't insult our intelligence. We all know that what is being discussed is increasing opportunities for girls and young women in the traditional programs of the BSA. If you want a reasonably neutral phrase, which does not include the term "coed", there it is. Some people like the idea, some dislike it, and some like some parts and dislike others. But we all know what the issue is. Edited August 14, 2017 by NJCubScouter 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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