Survey on girls just received

[walk in the woods]

I thought the Palms issue was well done.  I only heard about it here on the forum a week before it was implemented.  I guess I missed the memo about the survey.....  and the video..... and the training session.... and the discussion..... 

 

Well, it was kinda the same for the homosexual youth......

 

And the homosexual adult leadership.....

 

Come to think of it, they've been riding this slippery slope of non-information for a long time now..... or didn't you get the memo on that?

It's at https://www.glaacbsa.org/Scouting_Accessibleif your interested.

[qwazse]

...  I find it odd that only the United States and Iran can't handle co-ed scouting programs. ...

To be clear, it's the US and Saudi are the only WSOM organizations who are unisex.

 

Iran's movement has floundered since the revolution. Private parties are trying to restart it. It's not clear if it is co-ed. It seems to at least run parallel programs for girls and boys. (Gathered from pictures. I can only read about three words of Persian.)

[NJCubScouter]

Someone brought it up on the online message board we have and they were told, rather poignantly, not to discuss this issue "in the open.

I'm betting they were told rather pointedly, not poignantly.

 

I do agree with you that there is too much cloak-and-dagger activity in this process. Links to that video are all over the Internet. Do they really think people aren't going to talk about it?

[NJCubScouter]

Isn't Trail Life a choice?

Not if one is Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, LDS, Jehovah's Witness, Unitarian, etc.

 

Technically they do admit youth members regardless of religion, but adult leaders must subscribe to their statement of faith, which is Trinitarian Christianity. I do not know too many parents who would put their child in a program where the parents are unwelcome.

 

I also think that many Christian parents would rather have their sons be in a more religiously inclusive setting.

Edited August 7, 2017 by NJCubScouter

[NJCubScouter]

To paraphrase Captain Picard, "I will not sacrifice Boy Scouting. We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire genders, and we fall back. Not again! The line must be drawn here! This far, no further!"

I assume you realize that a scene or two later, Picard acknowledges that he has been acting like Captain Ahab and orders the crew to abandon ship so he can start the auto-destruct sequence. So, to paraphrase Obi-Wan Kenobi, this isn't the analogy you're looking for.

[Back Pack]

I assume you realize that a scene or two later, Picard acknowledges that he has been acting like Captain Ahab and orders the crew to abandon ship so he can start the auto-destruct sequence. So, to paraphrase Obi-Wan Kenobi, this isn't the analogy you're looking for.

Actually it sounds like the quote was accurate because scouting is going to self-destruct.

[Stosh]

It's really about time.  It's not as if this potential change will be the ruin of BSA.  There is no changing Girl Scouts, all it ever will be is gluing popsicle sticks and cookie selling.  I find it odd that only the United States and Iran can't handle co-ed scouting programs.  I don't see how this shift can kill the BSA, yes things would be different but in a good way.  The majority of Boy Scouts now have no motivation to lead or go on high adventures.  The boys that do go to Venturing.  Boy Scouts also have no idea how to act around girls.  This would be an opportunity for them to finally learn that it isn't that hard. 

 

They can learn those skills at home with siblings

They can learn those skills at school with classmates.

They can learn those skills at church with their friends.

They can learn those skills at the Family Y with everyone else in the gym.

They can learn those skills at 4-H, they have a great leadership development program and it's co-ed.

They can learn those skills at Boys & Girls Clubs, they now have opened up a character/leadership development program.

 

So in today's society, can they go to just hang out with the guys and do guy things like shoot guns, fish, play with rockets, build fires, cook in the woods, etc.

 

Once BSA adds their brand to the list above of pretty much same thing different place, they become just one of another competing program for the attention of our boys.

 

Let me clue everyone in, Cars win over Scouts, Video Games win over Scouts, Sports win over Scouts, Faith organizations win over Scouts, Family wiins over scouts, Band wins over Scouts, Show Choir wins over Scouts, Dating wins over Scouts.  Why?  Because we have been promising great adventures and never following through on it.  We promised fun, and we sit at picnic tables and listen to lectures. 

 

OOOOoooh  Rifle MB!  Yea!  until you get to the range where you sit and listen to the RangeMaster rattle on about gun safety and then after an eternity of waiting your tern.  You finally get to touch the gun and they give you 1 bullet?  Really?  But wait, the girl in line steps up and begins to show you how to load the gun  because you were bored out of our gourd during the lecture.  She pops off a bulls eye and now it's your turn.  Yep, that's the adventure of the new Age of Family Scouts.

 

Oh for the Real Scout program that used to mean something.

 

Pat McManus, where are you today?

[skeptic]

It appears we may be lumping two different approaches here.  I have been on the list for various surveys for a number of years, after signing up to get info and surveys.  There was no video for me with this survey, and it was not long.  So, we are apparently talking about two different surveys.

 

For me though, it is far better to get ahead of this curve if possible.  We can be obdurate and kick and scream, or we can find ways to compromise and be even more inclusive, avoiding a lot o legal hassles and perhaps even building a better program over time.  There is no reason girls cannot be involved at various levels, as long as the proper planning and safe guards are developed.  We may simply arrive at a far more flexible and challenging program with more options and a bigger umbrella.  No matter what occurs, we have to avoid as much negative publicity as we can, as well as not be throwing money away in a fruitless fight against the probable outcome.  Just an opinion of course.  I fully understand that some simply are too stubborn to even try, and others too set to change.

[JasonG172]

Isn't Trail Life a choice?  The BSA is far from the only single-sex scouting program.

 

Yes but they are Far and Few between.  For example there is one 45 min from me in Southaven MS, for them to make an impact there would need to be more breaking from BSA and staring up a TL.  On a side note (not that anything is wrong with it) it really seems more Religious Based than scout ever was.  JMO

[Back Pack]

It appears we may be lumping two different approaches here.  I have been on the list for various surveys for a number of years, after signing up to get info and surveys.  There was no video for me with this survey, and it was not long.  So, we are apparently talking about two different surveys.

 

For me though, it is far better to get ahead of this curve if possible.  We can be obdurate and kick and scream, or we can find ways to compromise and be even more inclusive, avoiding a lot o legal hassles and perhaps even building a better program over time.  There is no reason girls cannot be involved at various levels, as long as the proper planning and safe guards are developed.  We may simply arrive at a far more flexible and challenging program with more options and a bigger umbrella.  No matter what occurs, we have to avoid as much negative publicity as we can, as well as not be throwing money away in a fruitless fight against the probable outcome.  Just an opinion of course.  I fully understand that some simply are too stubborn to even try, and others too set to change.

I don't trust bsa to put together such a program.

 

I don't trust or like that bsa is pushing this agenda in the shadows.

 

I won't be a part of an organization that doesn't live by the very oath and law they expect their members to adhere to.

[Rick_in_CA]

OOOOoooh  Rifle MB!  Yea!  until you get to the range where you sit and listen to the RangeMaster rattle on about gun safety and then after an eternity of waiting your tern.  You finally get to touch the gun and they give you 1 bullet?  Really?  But wait, the girl in line steps up and begins to show you how to load the gun  because you were bored out of our gourd during the lecture.  She pops off a bulls eye and now it's your turn.  Yep, that's the adventure of the new Age of Family Scouts.

 

Oh for the Real Scout program that used to mean something.

Wait, I'm not sure what you are trying too say here. It reads almost as if you are repeating the old: "if a girl can do it, it isn't worth doing" thing.

[EmberMike]

Let me clue everyone in, Cars win over Scouts, Video Games win over Scouts, Sports win over Scouts, Faith organizations win over Scouts, Family wiins over scouts, Band wins over Scouts, Show Choir wins over Scouts, Dating wins over Scouts.  Why?  Because we have been promising great adventures and never following through on it.  We promised fun, and we sit at picnic tables and listen to lectures. 

 

I'm with you on this one. "Adventure" is all over the BSA marketing materials, the social media posts, the YouTube videos, in the books, it's everywhere. And rarely do we deliver on it. At least relative to the emphasis placed on it when we're trying to get kids to join. 

 

It's hard to do, no doubt about it. And to do it frequently and consistently especially. Delivering some kind of adventure every week? It's almost impossible. But I think if we're all honest with ourselves about it, we fail at delivering adventure even when the opportunity is right in front of us. I cringe whenever I see kids at camp sitting in a mess hall doing citizenship requirements or some other entirely book-based learning. Meanwhile the woods are right outside the door. The kids could be making their own adventure if they wanted to, but instead they're sitting indoors at a table with a leader reciting some paragraph they had to memorize. Surely we can do better to at the very least not inhibit adventure when we're in a place that facilitates the very opportunity for the kids to find some kind of adventure outside. 

 

 

OOOOoooh  Rifle MB!  Yea!  until you get to the range where you sit and listen to the RangeMaster rattle on about gun safety and then after an eternity of waiting your tern.  You finally get to touch the gun and they give you 1 bullet?  Really?  But wait, the girl in line steps up and begins to show you how to load the gun  because you were bored out of our gourd during the lecture.  She pops off a bulls eye and now it's your turn.  Yep, that's the adventure of the new Age of Family Scouts.

 

So I was with you on the adventure stuff, but then on this point I'm lost. Like Rick, I also think it sounds like you're saying that if a girl can do it, it's now somehow watered down the activity and made it worthless. 

Edited August 8, 2017 by EmberMike

[EmberMike]

Just saw this interesting video from Jambo with Surbaugh talking about girls in scouting:

 

[Tampa Turtle]

I just got my survey. Speaking as a commie pinko proud to be a Liberal scouter EVEN I found it was one the most dishonest pre-loaded surveys corralling takers to a pre-destination. I wonder what was the point other than to publish support statistics to a decision obviously made. Girls are coming and I am sure that BSA, once the attaboys in the press and social media are over, will make a total hash of it.

[Col. Flagg]

I just got my survey. Speaking as a commie pinko proud to be a Liberal scouter EVEN I found it was one the most dishonest pre-loaded surveys corralling takers to a pre-destination. I wonder what was the point other than to publish support statistics to a decision obviously made. Girls are coming and I am sure that BSA, once the attaboys in the press and social media are over, will make a total hash of it.

 

On behalf of all gun-toting, SUV driving, global warming denying, keep Boy Scouting for boys, semi right-wing fascists, we appreciate your honesty. 

 

I thought my rose-colored glasses had drawn me to the same conclusion, but I was pretty sure they hadn't.