What makes them stay with Scouting?

[Phrogger]

Agree with Eagledad on the first year Scout issue. My son is starting his second year and near quitting. We did Wolves all the way through Webelos but the transition to the troop was a shock. He doesn't find it fun. I think they ought to break out the tween-age group and give them their own activities.

[Old Eagle 73]

I agree with you that Scouts over 14 quit because programs can be boring – and Scouting is competing with other High School activities. If their friends quit – there is even less of a reason to stay with scouting.

I would like to make 2 points: 

 

I don’t think that getting a new scout to 1^st class in a year to 18 months is the principle purpose of scouting for this age group.  I have always thought that the goal was for the scouts that are generally 14+ old to learn leadership by ensuring they train the younger scouts – and if the older scouts have developed an adequate training curriculum – the younger scouts should be able to reach 1^st class within a year to 18 months. Just as they will need to do 10-15 years from now when they are leaders in the workplace, older scouts need to begin to learn how to work with different personality types, scouts that don’t show up regularly at meetings, and what it takes to motivate different individuals to succeed and “do their bestâ€.  This is a lot of work for a 14-year old – and he may not view it as “funâ€.  My son is 11 and in a Friendship patrol.  At one of his first campouts with the troop, he asked his Guide if they were going to get their Totin’ Chip on this campout.  The Guide said “Don’t worry – you will get that at Scout Camp this summerâ€. Older scouts should not abdicate their training responsibilities to summer camp – or they are not learning leadership.

 

Scouting does a great job recognizing individuals that are being promoted – but may not do enough to recognized the older scouts that are doing the training.  It’s hard work and they don’t feel that they are recognized for their service – other than wearing a PL or SPL patch on their shoulder. I have suggested to our scoutmaster that during the court of honor – he recognized the PL, SPL, and other youth leaders who worked to help the younger scouts achieve success in their advancement.  Perhaps have the PL introduce the individual scouts in his patrol that are being promoted that evening.

 

Second, the other way to help keep the older scouts engaged is by doing new activities – going on the same canoe trip on the same river each year can get very boring. I suspect that under the concept of “scout led troopâ€, some troop leaders let the youth leaders initiate all the planning of outdoor activities for the coming year. But is it reasonable to expect a 14-15 year old boys to come up with new fun ideas, contact outfitters, judge how easy/difficult the outing may be for scouts of various ages and skill levels, etc.? It is just too easy for scouts at the planning meeting to just do what they did last year. I am not advocating that adult leaders do all of this – but without fresh ideas and outings a program can become stale and older scouts will lose interest. Given technology – it would not be difficult for a District or Council web site to have a “Best Outings†link – where they post summaries and reviews of outings submitted by troop members in the District or Council.  It could be a great resource page that the youth Scout Leaders in a troop could use to get new ideas for outdoor activities.

 

My nephew recently made Eagle – and the older scouts in his troop call the Eagle Court of Honor the “Eagle Retirement Ceremonyâ€.  That is most unfortunate.  Troops across the country have difficulty retaining older scouts and keeping younger scouts interested.  I think that forums like this can help generate new ideas to help scouting.

[Old Eagle 73]

I agree with you that Scouts over 14 quit because programs can be boring – and Scouting is competing with other High School activities. If their friends quit – there is even less of a reason to stay with scouting.

I would like to make 2 points: 

 

I don’t think that getting a new scout to 1^st class in a year to 18 months is the principle purpose of scouting for this age group.  I have always thought that the goal was for the scouts that are generally 14+ old to learn leadership by ensuring they train the younger scouts – and if the older scouts have developed an adequate training curriculum – the younger scouts should be able to reach 1^st class within a year to 18 months. Just as they will need to do 10-15 years from now when they are leaders in the workplace, older scouts need to begin to learn how to work with different personality types, scouts that don’t show up regularly at meetings, and what it takes to motivate different individuals to succeed and “do their bestâ€.  This is a lot of work for a 14-year old – and he may not view it as “funâ€.  My son is 11 and in a Friendship patrol.  At one of his first campouts with the troop, he asked his Guide if they were going to get their Totin’ Chip on this campout.  The Guide said “Don’t worry – you will get that at Scout Camp this summerâ€. Older scouts should not abdicate their training responsibilities to summer camp – or they are not learning leadership.

 

Scouting does a great job recognizing individuals that are being promoted – but may not do enough to recognized the older scouts that are doing the training.  It’s hard work and they don’t feel that they are recognized for their service – other than wearing a PL or SPL patch on their shoulder. I have suggested to our scoutmaster that during the court of honor – he recognized the PL, SPL, and other youth leaders who worked to help the younger scouts achieve success in their advancement.  Perhaps have the PL introduce the individual scouts in his patrol that are being promoted that evening.

 

Second, the other way to help keep the older scouts engaged is by doing new activities – going on the same canoe trip on the same river each year can get very boring. I suspect that under the concept of “scout led troopâ€, some troop leaders let the youth leaders initiate all the planning of outdoor activities for the coming year. But is it reasonable to expect a 14-15 year old boys to come up with new fun ideas, contact outfitters, judge how easy/difficult the outing may be for scouts of various ages and skill levels, etc.? It is just too easy for scouts at the planning meeting to just do what they did last year. I am not advocating that adult leaders do all of this – but without fresh ideas and outings a program can become stale and older scouts will lose interest. Given technology – it would not be difficult for a District or Council web site to have a “Best Outings†link – where they post summaries and reviews of outings submitted by troop members in the District or Council.  It could be a great resource page that the youth Scout Leaders in a troop could use to get new ideas for outdoor activities.

 

My nephew recently made Eagle – and the older scouts in his troop call the Eagle Court of Honor the “Eagle Retirement Ceremonyâ€.  That is most unfortunate.  Troops across the country have difficulty retaining older scouts and keeping younger scouts interested.  I think that forums like this can help generate new ideas to help scouting.

[cocomax]

I was a scout in the 1970's. I was in from age 11 to age 17 and I made First Class, I earned only merit badges that interested me. I was not at all worried about advancement, I was too busy having fun with my friends and going on adventure after adventure. Quitting never crossed my mind back then, scouting was too much fun to give up. Scouting changed my life and made me a leader, it happened naturally, without me even realizing it at the time. There was no EDGE method and exact methods of teaching.    It was just a group of Boys making the adventure happen, our adventures that we picked and we shared leadership naturally.  The eagles in your troop didn't quit, they stayed around, they were having fun.

 

What happened?  What is this Cyberchip thing? What does Cyberchip have to do with Scouting? It is nothing more than an extension of what is already taught in schools.

What is with all this paperwork, powerpoint, flip charts, lectures? Did scouts turn into a school program?

 

What happened to the merit badge system?  How are scouts getting cooking merit badges without cooking? How are scouts getting welding merit badges for using a welder for no more than 5 seconds? And then not knowing what type of welder they were using let alone the first thing about welding.  Why are there merit badge mills that will pass out 3 merit badges to anyone that sits through a weekend of lectures and does some paperwork. . .

 

Advancement for advancements sake is boring, no wonder Boys are quitting and joining sports instead, at least they get to do something when they are part of sports.

 

If it is all about advancement then when you are done advancing then you are done.  

 

Scouts need to be outside doing scouting things.  Advancement and learning leadership should come naturally and joyfully as just part of the game of scouting.

[RememberSchiff]

@@cocomax welcome to scouter.com. I see we share the same pain.

[Stosh]

@cocomax Welcome to the "good old days".  We are only a small minority of people on the forum, but that's okay.  Maybe someone will someday listen to what we have to say.  I only made 2nd Class, but what I learned has stayed with me all my life.

[cocomax]

How do you get 14-15 year old boys to come up with new fun ideas?

 

Good question. . . 

 

The answer, the scouter has got to be a scout and do some scouting.  Grab some books about interesting placing near your location and go and scout them out. Look for odd and interesting places with a story, great places to hike to and camp at. Then when you are sitting around the campfire with the boys tell them some stories of your grand adventures, get them inspired with ideas of what is possible. . .  I have seen this method work wonders. . .

 

or 

 

Make a big list of possible things your troop could do and give it to your SPL and PLs have them research the list themselves tell them they can add to the list.  They simply might not know what is out there that the troop can do and can not come up with any new ideas. They might have the idea in their heads that they can only do the thing that the troop has done in the past because that is what the adults want and they want to please the adults.   

 

The boys in our troop came up with the idea taking part in a "MUD RUN" this last week and that is something we have never done before, they came up with that idea all on their own and the adults welcomed it.

[Eagledad]

Adults are just as bad with creativity as Scouts. That is why most troops rely on a Scouts skills advancement program. Even when new ideas are presented, many units nixed them because they don't fit in with the advancement theme.

 

Education of understanding that advancement is a byproduct of adventure would be one way to encourage creativity of activities. And if the only way to get adults on board with an adventure program is compromising with some instructive advancement, then add a couple hours of free time before loading the cars for home.

 

Barry

Edited September 24, 2017 by Eagledad

[ScouterStephen]

I skimmed through this topic, and from what I could tell, the points are spot on. My troop is loosing lots of people, and reading through these responses, it makes a lot more sense as to why.

[Stosh]

The Mrs. is out of town and she didn't take my credit card away from me.    I just purchased $100 worth of books on living off the grid.  Basically they are books on how people survived in the world before electricity and modern conveniences.  Yeah, yeah, Stosh is at it again.  BUT jerking beef, making pemican, foraging for food or medicines, etc. will go a long way to lighten the load on any backpacking trek.  Going to the local camp store to buy freeze-dried foods at ridiculous prices vs. making your own at home for pennies on the dollar?  Our grandparents did this all the time and survived quite well.  Unfortunately today's scouts will starve to death in the Walmart parking lot if the electricity goes out.

 

These books will give suggestions on hunting, trapping, foraging, preserving foods, etc. all those things that are oriented to the outdoors where electrical plug-ins are non-existent.  Sure, for a few bucks one can buy a solar charger, but if the electricity to run cell phones and internet goes out, the iPhones and chargers are just a boat anchor in the pack.

 

Well, if we are teaching boys to be avid outdoorsmen, then we better teach them useful skills beyond S->FC advancement requirements.  After all, my homemade teriyaki venison jerky is better than anything one buys in the store.  It would be a shame to have Boy Scouts starving to death sitting in the middle of nature's grocery store.

 

Oh, but you say, that will never happen.  Well check it out with the people of Texas and Florida who went 3-4 weeks without eating anything other than what was salvaged out of their refrigerators and freezers if they could even get to them.  Water, water, everywhere, not a drop to drink. 

 

Yes, this can happen even today and if it's your neighborhood are you prepared?

Edited September 25, 2017 by Stosh