Youth Behavior at 2017 Jamboree

[Stosh]

I agree with you. That's the way it should be.  

 

Should?  Isn't that our job as scouters to teach that?

[Cambridgeskip]

Melting pot take away bravado? I invite you to watch a pretty woman walk down a street in brooklyn during a work week. You don't get much more meting pot than that.

We agree more women will make males less likely to act like animals.

But it won't be Brooklyn. This will be a jamboree populated by scouts from around the world. It's a totally different environment to anything else you will encounter anywhere.

 

I'll give you my own experience.

 

2005 I took a group of scouts to the European jamboree which was held less than hour from Cambridge. For how close it was it may as well have been on another planet.

 

On arrival we found ourselves camped next to a polish unit. They spoke not a word of English between them, we spoke not a single word of polish. The other side of them were an Isralie unit. English better but most spoke Hebrew as their first language. The other side of us were a big Italian unit. One of their adult leaders had a working knowledge of English. Their scouts could manage hello and goodbye and a few other pleasentries. Thankfully one of our scouts was English Italian bilingual and did some interpreting for us. The other side of them were an Irish unit who came a from a staunch Protestant/unionist working class area of Belfast. You couldn't find an area of the uk more different to liberal middle class cambridge. Across the track from us we're a Ugandan unit (yes at eurojam) who promptly started trying to sell us paintings of animals from Africa and later burst into traditional African song and dance. Next to them were the Swiss unit who's girls proceeded to beat our boys at rugby later in the week and the other side of them the Portuguese who would form massive human pyramids at every opportunity, and we're talking 5 or 6 layers high, standing, with no safety net.

 

And that was day 1 of 13!

 

And it very quickly killed off any bravado but not the friendship or curiousity of everyone

 

Later in the week we met the Norwegians the French the Mexicans the Koreans, Hungarians, sweeds and so it went on. If I recall there were 64 nationalities there.

 

There is simply no comparison with any other gathering either within or outside of scouting

Edited August 2, 2017 by Cambridgeskip

[Col. Flagg]

I've been to international events and bases, as well as domestic ones. Yes, every now and again you will get some teen aged boy acting inappropriately to a girl. I have seen this at Seabase, national Jamboree, world Jamboree, Kandersteg or council camp.

 

I do hold the Scouts and their adult leaders responsible for ensuring that ZERO harassment/bullying happens.

[perdidochas]

Should?  Isn't that our job as scouters to teach that?

Well, of course,    we should all be teaching that.  I think my Troop has been pretty good at that. As I said, we don't tend to have problems with theft when it's just our Troop, but when we are with other troops. 

[Stosh]

Well, of course,    we should all be teaching that.  I think my Troop has been pretty good at that. As I said, we don't tend to have problems with theft when it's just our Troop, but when we are with other troops. 

Sorry if you thought I was making any references to you.  We all own the onus of teaching these things to our kids, even outside of scouting.  Sadly there are those out there that don't.

[perdidochas]

Sorry if you thought I was making any references to you.  We all own the onus of teaching these things to our kids, even outside of scouting.  Sadly there are those out there that don't.

Exactly.  

[fred johnson]

BSA was created years ago because of a need to teach youth outdoor skills, citizenship and physical fitness.

Perhaps the Jamboree issues reveal the real timely need for this new generation.  Going fully co-ed would foce youth to learn respect and how to work together.  Isolating one gender does not help when those genders will encounter each other and need to work together.  

 

Edited August 7, 2017 by fred johnson

[Col. Flagg]

BSA was created years ago because of a need to teach youth outdoor skills, citizenship and physical fitness.

 

Perhaps the Jamboree issues reveal the real timely need for this new generation.  Going fully co-ed would foce youth to learn respect and how to work together.  Isolating one gender does not help when those genders will encounter each other and need to work together.  

 

Not even when that same organization supposed to be teaching the Scout Law and Oath? C'mon, really Fred?

 

Let's not pretend that adding girls to the mix is going to magically stop sexual harassment, stop theft (also a big problem at Jambo) or increase respect of others and self. These are problems attributable to degradation of these principles in society and the break down of the nuclear family. Kids who watch reality TV, come from a single parent families, have poor adult role models or no spiritual forces in their life are likely to have this lack of respect for Scouting ideals and others.

 

Adding girls in to Scouting is not the cure for all socio-economic ills that are manifest in large Scouting events like Jambo. 

[fred johnson]

Adding girls in to Scouting is not the cure for ... 

 

I agree it's not a cure all.  But it's unreasonable to not expect questionable behavior when most scouts are in an all male scouting experience and then attend a co-ed Jamoboree.  Civility is not what it was.  Perhaps it should be a new focal point. 

[Col. Flagg]

I agree it's not a cure all.  But it's unreasonable to not expect questionable behavior when most scouts are in an all male scouting experience and then attend a co-ed Jamoboree.  Civility is not what it was.  Perhaps it should be a new focal point. 

 

I respectfully disagree. If these young men belong to a program where they are held to the standards they recite a few times a month, they wouldn't act like that. If these young men were held to higher standards at school or in their home, they wouldn't act like that. If these young men had a stronger spiritual influence in their life, they wouldn't act like that.

 

Let's face it, these kids don't act like this because they were in a single-sex environment and suddenly were thrust in to a coed environment. I'd buy that if they lived on a single-sex planet, but they don't. They go to school with girls, they go to the mall or water parks and see girls all the time! 

 

This was little boys not being held to the standards they claim to aspire to. This was adults hiding behind the "boy led" mantra and not getting out and making sure their guys were acting like human beings. These guys know better, they just elected to be tools. Coed is all around them in their daily lives and it had no impact on their behavior. They simply thought they could get away with it.

[perdidochas]

I agree it's not a cure all.  But it's unreasonable to not expect questionable behavior when most scouts are in an all male scouting experience and then attend a co-ed Jamoboree.  Civility is not what it was.  Perhaps it should be a new focal point. 

I disagree, as we expect most Boy Scout youth to behave civilly in their non-Scout lives (i.e. in the mostly coed world (for most scouts) of middle and high school).  It is reasonable to not expect questionable behavior from Boy Scouts.  

[Stosh]

Lemme see..... Co-ed is good for the BSA just like it's been good for dozens of other youth organizations out there.  Okay, let's then ask the question what's left out there on the market for those who want a all-male, masculine youth development program where boys can learn how to be men, fathers, husbands, and be able to provide those things when they mature.

 

Oh, girls can do all of that, too..... which means the males are no longer a functionally needed part of society anymore.  Which is great, because one can then go fishing, hunting. camping, boating 24/7 and be totally irresponsible.  Let the single moms be the breadwinners, the financial stability, the protector, the provider.  They can be the Zena Warrior Princesses and defend our country along with financially supporting their children in 2 years of 24/7 day care while they are deployed over-seas.

 

They got it covered, what say you and I grab a brewski and head on down to the lake for some serious fishing?   Works for me.

 

And what's seriously going to fill in the gaps in this whole process the BSA is going through?

 

Name the #1 ranked all male youth group in America today?  Yep urban gangs.  Oh, but you say they are co-ed?  Seriously?  How many females really are in any form of leadership in those groups?  Without the moral compass of course it'll become even worse.  Idle males hanging around with nothing to do.  Lord of the Flies anyone?

 

Okay, name the second all-male groupings in today's society?  ....   Yeah, me to, I'm still thinking.

[mashmaster]

Lemme see..... Co-ed is good for the BSA just like it's been good for dozens of other youth organizations out there.  Okay, let's then ask the question what's left out there on the market for those who want a all-male, masculine youth development program where boys can learn how to be men, fathers, husbands, and be able to provide those things when they mature.

 

Oh, girls can do all of that, too..... which means the males are no longer a functionally needed part of society anymore.  Which is great, because one can then go fishing, hunting. camping, boating 24/7 and be totally irresponsible.  Let the single moms be the breadwinners, the financial stability, the protector, the provider.  They can be the Zena Warrior Princesses and defend our country along with financially supporting their children in 2 years of 24/7 day care while they are deployed over-seas.

 

They got it covered, what say you and I grab a brewski and head on down to the lake for some serious fishing?   Works for me.

 

And what's seriously going to fill in the gaps in this whole process the BSA is going through?

 

Name the #1 ranked all male youth group in America today?  Yep urban gangs.  Oh, but you say they are co-ed?  Seriously?  How many females really are in any form of leadership in those groups?  Without the moral compass of course it'll become even worse.  Idle males hanging around with nothing to do.  Lord of the Flies anyone?

 

Okay, name the second all-male groupings in today's society?  ....   Yeah, me to, I'm still thinking.

Are you serious?   Because BSA goes co-ed, people leave the program for gangs?  There will be adult leaders of both sexes teaching the boys and girls the scout law and values.  It seems to work for Venturing quite well.

[qwazse]

Are you serious?   Because BSA goes co-ed, people leave the program for gangs?  There will be adult leaders of both sexes teaching the boys and girls the scout law and values.  It seems to work for Venturing quite well.

Really? "quite well"? If "quite well" means fastest decline of all divisions, then it's no wonder BSA machinates over unpopular programs.

[skeptic]

We continue to act as if somehow BSA is going to be able to overcome the flaws that so dominate in our current society, if only we can make them live by the codes of honor that are the foundation of BSA. It is true that Scouting began as an approach to deal with wayward youth of the nineteenth and early twentieth century.  Then there were many issues that have since gone away, or been rendered far less of a problem at least.  But, of course, we have continued to have new negative distractions created, many which may seem far worse than those of over a century ago.  While they are different, the basic problem is still in the way adults respond, especially those supposedly closest to the youth, or in positions of particular authority or instruction.  

 

If you spend much time in our school systems, even the best, it is obvious that far too many students have not learned basic social skills at home, nor do many parents seem to feel obligated to support the needed discipline when their child over steps the school or societal boundaries.  We more and more have similar challenges as Scout leaders.  

 

But, as "leaders" we must decide how much effort we want to spend on dealing with the recalcitrant scouts and often non-supportive parents.  IF we are to succeed more than fail, we have to understand we will never win them all, but also, my experience has shown that many battles I have feared lost, later have proven to have left a spark that germinated into a positive change later in a scout's life, even if they had left the program.  

 

Yet, I am particularly bothered by how often today many Scouters(?) no longer set the examples we hope our youth will aspire to based on the Oath and Law.  Still, that then is our continued challenge.  It is sad that it needs to be pointed out more to the adults today than we might expect.  On the other hand, perhaps it has always been this way, only portrayed in a different manner.  My father told me once, when I had only been a leader about ten years or less that my frustration with the level of parental involvement was nothing new.  He took me back to our time together in my Scouting youth and pointed out how many boys there were and how few parents.  

 

So, we work to continue to expose as many youth as we can to what we still consider worthwhile endeavors, while setting our best examples and trying to keep the fun in it at the same time.  It does little good to abandon the good, which is still the largest part of the program when run, with the basic tenets as a guide, just because it changes with the fast paced societal confrontations and challenges.

 

I am not yet to the point of giving up, especially since I have reached the point where I have grown scouts reaching out to me for advice with their own children, or telling me how much their time with us meant to them.  It is a point of sincere pride that I can honestly point to so many of my past scouts that are doing well in the world, and that a few of those that I was so disappointed at having "lost", have come back twenty years later to tell me how those principles they chafed at or ignored, eventually came to make sense and lit their paths later in life.  Now, some of them have their own children in the program, even a few in our troop.

 

On MY HONOR, I will do MY BEST.  Hopefully I will continue to find ways to meet that simple challenge and pass the principles on to another generation.