Youth Behavior at 2017 Jamboree

[Back Pack]

The girl was a bit more than harassed. No one should have to put up with that crap.

[Stosh]

The girl was a bit more than harassed. No one should have to put up with that crap.

 

That's why we have assault laws.  The kid gets a sexual charge against him, he'll regret it for the rest of his life.  If the girl is under 18 the police really take it seriously.    What I can't figure out is how in a crowd the jerk could get away with it.  Surely there must have been a real scout around that would do something besides watch.

[Back Pack]

That's why we have assault laws.  The kid gets a sexual charge against him, he'll regret it for the rest of his life.  If the girl is under 18 the police really take it seriously.    What I can't figure out is how in a crowd the jerk could get away with it.  Surely there must have been a real scout around that would do something besides watch.

Or real adult.

 

With the male to female ratio at likely 300:1 or more I doubt any guy would step up to help.

[Cambridgeskip]

 

Exactly why we are dissing the Intl Jambo and going to Alaska for high adventure instead. The girls want adventure, not harassment.

Your girls will probably find the world jamboree rather different. The minimum age is 14 rather than 11, hence a higher maturity level, also as most countries are coed the number of girls will be that much higher making them less of a "novelty"

 

I had 3 girls go to Japan in 2015 for the world jamboree there and none of them had any problems and infact were very complimentary of the Americans they met there!

[Back Pack]

It's not the 11 year olds waking around and harassing the girls. It's the hormone laiden 14-17 year olds traveling in packs. Mostly they were from big cities. Besides I think 12 is the base age to go to Jamboree. I hear it used to be 13 or 14.

[Stosh]

I put sexual harassment in the same category as bullying.  Any scout that witnesses such activity is honor bound to step in and stop it.  If the bully is twice his size, so be it, a Scout is Brave.  I have seen it done.  Bullies are notorious cowards looking to find dominance by intimidation. 

 

I had one boy step in on a harassment confrontation.  (This was not a scouting situation) He put his arm around the girl and told the bully he didn't appreciate that being aimed at his girlfriend.  (She was a total stranger to him)  The bully backed off and the boy escorted the girl to a safer place before walking away.  The only thing the girl said besides thank you was that she wished she had a real boyfriend that could do that.  The activity occurred during a church youth group activity.

 

Some boys do step up.

[Cambridgeskip]

Nevertheless I think you'll Find a world jamboree a very different experience. The melting pot of different cultures puts pay to an awful lot of nonsense. And frankly there are some cultures where cat calling or groping would likely find the culprit landed head first in a rubbish bin or knocked out cold by the girl involved. I've seen both Swiss and Irish scouts in action and they don't suffer fools gladly

[Back Pack]

And some cultures where public rapes in major cities on public buses still happen.

 

Not sure I buy the argument that International males are more likely to appreciate women more than American males. I do buy that there will be more women present and so any males will be less likely to act as such.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Back Pack

[Cambridgeskip]

That's not what I meant

 

What I meant was that there will be a much greater proportion of girls. Some countries it will be a 50-50 contingent. That in itself cuts out much of the novelty factor. It's one thing cat calling the girl on her own. Quite another the one in a much larger group.

 

And the melting point takes away a lot of the bravado because suddenly that group of scouts you just encountered are not from your own country where you have a broad idea of how they'll react. They speak a different language come from another continent, react differently, are entirely different. I've watched it in action. Major international events like this are a totally different experience to anything else.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Cambridgeskip

[Back Pack]

Melting pot take away bravado? I invite you to watch a pretty woman walk down a street in brooklyn during a work week. You don't get much more meting pot than that.

 

We agree more women will make males less likely to act like animals.

[perdidochas]

We had several hundred scouts pass through our troop over the years I was a scouter. I've worked with all kinds of boys of different personalities, but we never had a single theft in the troop. I think that one statistic alone gave me a lot of faith in the values of the program. We had dozens of instances where scouts approached the senior scouts or the adults claiming someone had stolen some of their property. It just seems to be human natures first natural reaction. But as we gained experienced, we learned to point out to the scout that theft in the troop was very rare. We suggested the scout ask his patrol help him search for the property because it more than likely just misplaced. And it was EVERY time. The stuff scouts lost and found at summer camp was actually comical.

 

Now I know that we were likely just lucky, but I can't help feel that the patrol method and the practice of the scout law in large part deserve much of the credit for the trust in the patrols. 

 

This is a disappointing discussion for me because I know the scouting program works. And yet we are shown in this discussion several examples of scout behaving badly. I don't have a good response for how to change the trend, if it is a trend. But I do believe that a lot of scouters are running their programs wrong. Now I wonder if we need a course in developing street smarts in our scouts, because my scouts would certainly have been naive today.

 

Barry

In my 6 years actively being an adult leader with my boy's Troop, we never have an intra-Troop theft. The only time we had thefts were when we camped with other troops--summer camp, camporees and a local OA sponsored camp.  One of our ASMs at that camp had his truck broken into at such an event (he was getting prepared for an upcoming  backpacking trip, so he had his backpacking equipment in the truck).  A few days later, some boys from another troop fessed up to it, but not sure the final outcome, as they were supposed to not only return all the equipment, but replace the tablet that they had stolen (and then destroyed when they saw he was starting to track it from his phone). The ASM quit scouting, because his basic trust of Scouts was violated.  

 

  My sons had some problems at OA events, not with theft, but with unauthorized use of my son's equipment (equipment that was in my son's pack, not out in the open, IMHO, the only reason it wasn't stolen was that he came back to camp).  As I often say in conversations about kids, my own two sons sometimes get on my nerves. However, when I'm around our Troop, I realize how good my sons are.  Then, when around other Troops, I realize how good our Troop is.  I do agree with you that I think some of the message is not being transmitted to the Scouts.  

[Stosh]

50 years ago, social norms were pretty structured.  If mamma found out I didn't treat a lady decently she'd go after me with a stick.  Courtesy, manners, respect, etc. were fairly common.  

 

In this day and age, those norms are no longer practiced as much.  Yes, we had our buddies get out of line, but it was quickly corrected on the spot.  Now others tend to want to join in.  It's not just the "kids" doing it either.  The world has changed.  Differences between boys in my younger years were quite often settled with a physical fight.  Not good, but that was common.  At least a guy beating up a gal because of differences hasn't become common place, it would seem that with the equality issue, even that might change.  

[perdidochas]

Some of this comes from home. Parents tend to manage their kids in the areas of MBs and rank advancement. "Fill out an MB sheet and you're done with the MB, right?" asks a mother. Tell her no, and she will wonder why since the "work" was done. One wonders if she tracks their child's homework with the same veracity. 

 

Parents have become box checkers. Is it any wonder that their kids are as well? And then an SM tries to correct this in the Scouting program and meets resistance; the SM eventually gives up because the task and cacophony of screaming parents and harassing emails becomes too great. The cycle continues and you get mediocrity in Scouting.

 

I'm sure homework is tracked that same way.  The parent didn't just start that with Scouting.

[Scourge]

But this slices in the opposite direction as well. I've had girls who wanted to "style up" their image in their uniform (leave open more than one button on a green shirt, or tie it off in a mid-riff). It's a really tough sell convincing them that loyalty to the organization should triumph loyalty to some fashionista. Although @@Scourge, I'm sure, made no comprise with her uniform, others have.

 

Norming both groups takes time.

Yes some girls are like that and show more than they should.  However inside of Venture scouts, this type of girl is rare.  My crew mates and I wore normal clothing the entire time.  Scout pants, T shirt, hiking boots, and a hat. 

[perdidochas]

I should be able to drop my wallet at a scout camp, have it found by a trustworthy scout, and returned intact.

 

Knock, Knock, Knock.

 

Huh?

 

Hello Mr. Schiff. Ready to go to Old Scouter Home In Trees?

I agree with you. That's the way it should be.