Youth Behavior at 2017 Jamboree

[Eagledad]

Col., my apologies for my first post.  I didn't mean to post it, but I hit the wrong key in my effort to get out of the editor. When I edited it after it posted to remove the content, the editor would not accept my changes, I don't know why. I sent a note to the moderators.

 

Since you brought it up, I'm not sure where exactly the crux of the problem lies, I have a few stories where the female (both adult and scout) members of the BSA behaved badly (in a sexual aggression context) as well. I am truly disturbed by Scourge's post and embarrassed. Not as a male, but as a Scout. If I were the SM of those boys, there would a realignment process in order.

 

But I feel this is bigger than just a BSA event. And that is what really bothers me. I am the grandfather of an 18 month girl. What do her parents, as well as my future grand son's, have to look forward to?

 

I want to add that I am impressed by Scourge's controlled reactions to these boys. Someone held up the reputation of the programs values. Thanks Scourge.

 

Barry

Edited July 31, 2017 by Eagledad

[RememberSchiff]

Col., my apologies for my first post.  I didn't mean to post it, but I hit the wrong key in my effort to get out of the editor. When I edited it after it posted to remove the content, the editor would not accept my changes, I don't know why. I sent a note to the moderators.

Barry

My apologies too. I was slow to respond. Hopefully all reset now.  - RS

[Eagledad]

We have had great luck at council camps for summer camp and high adventure. Only a few reports over the years of girls being poorly treated. Both camp and unit staff nipped that in the bud and the Scout(s) in question either repented or were sent home. Never had an issue at Kandersteg. To be honest, my girls would give any guy a "big does of Texas" if they treated them like that. They figure if you are going to break the Oath and Law, they will too.   As the father of a daughter I do not blame them.

I'm not sure this means much because there are a lot more unit leaders around in these camps to prevent the aggression Scourge experienced.

 

Our troop worked by a motto that we developed our scouts maturity so that if the adults didn't show up, their behavior wouldn't change. Scourge's experience is exactly what we are talking about. 

 

I'm not going to say our scouts would never embarrass themselves with bad behavior because the whole idea of the patrol method program is that we hope they learn proper boundaries from their poor decisions. But I will say we gave them a lot of rope (independence) to fail within our program.

 

I have said here many times that the troop experience is the real world experience scaled down to a boys size experience. We want the boys to fail in the troop program so the lessons they learn help them mature for the real world. From a cultural perspective, I wonder if that is the problem with today's society. 

 

Barry

[Col. Flagg]

Col., my apologies for my first post.  I didn't mean to post it, but I hit the wrong key in my effort to get out of the editor. When I edited it after it posted to remove the content, the editor would not accept my changes, I don't know why. I sent a note to the moderators.

 

Since you brought it up, I'm not sure where exactly the crux of the problem lies, I have a few stories where the female (both adult and scout) members of the BSA behaved badly (in a sexual aggression context) as well. I am truly disturbed by Scourge's post and embarrassed. Not as a male, but as a Scout. If I were the SM of those boys, there would a realignment process in order.

 

But I feel this is bigger than just a BSA event. And that is what really bothers me. I am the grandfather of an 18 month girl. What do her parents, as well as my future grand son's, have to look forward to?

 

I want to add that I am impressed by Scourge's controlled reactions to these boys. Someone held up the reputation of the programs values. Thanks Scourge.

 

Barry

 

No worries, Barry. I didn't see anything requiring an apology. You're probably just being nice. 

 

I have no clue where this problem lies. Actually, that's not true. I do have a suspicion where it lies but it is not a popular one and will likely make me sound like the old Dana Carvey character on SNL, "Grumpy Old Man".

 

I think the problem lies with society. It lies with the video games kids play (and parents allow). It lies with the TV shows networks air and what passes for entertainment. It lies with instant gratification. It lies with the "trophies for everyone" mentality. It lies with the social media approach to news, information and narcissistic display of one-upsmanship we see every day. It lies with the lack of manners and respect for one's self and others. It lies with the slow eroding of family values and teaching of morals. That's not code for anything, it just simply means that most boys won't act like that when they have a solid, working father figure in their life that respects women. It means that when families eat together, instead of in front of the TV or at a fast food restaurant every night, their son can be taught respect for his mother, sister and female relatives. He can learn to honor them instead of objectifying them.

 

Darn it....see, I got on my soap box again.  Sorry.

 

[Stosh]

Not an excuse, just an observation.

 

Church youth groups of this age are co-ed and there is very little problem with "hormonal aggression".  Being adult led, the adults deal swiftly and often times quite harshly with it.  It depends a bit on the liberal/conservative nature of the church.  Usually the more conservative groups tend to be more well behaved.

 

Scout groups I work with Cub/Scout are not co-ed and I don't have to deal with it.  We did have a problem with a female Venturing scout who wore short-shorts and tied her t-shirt and "waltzed" around among the boys until a female SM stepped in and told her to grow up and get dressed.  In Venturing as an advisor, I didn't run into any male-female issues.  Just had a nice bunch, I guess.

 

The community youth groups I work with are the worst.  'nuff said.

[Gwaihir]

No worries, Barry. I didn't see anything requiring an apology. You're probably just being nice. 

 

I have no clue where this problem lies. Actually, that's not true. I do have a suspicion where it lies but it is not a popular one and will likely make me sound like the old Dana Carvey character on SNL, "Grumpy Old Man".

 

I think the problem lies with society. It lies with the video games kids play (and parents allow). It lies with the TV shows networks air and what passes for entertainment. It lies with instant gratification. It lies with the "trophies for everyone" mentality. It lies with the social media approach to news, information and narcissistic display of one-upsmanship we see every day. It lies with the lack of manners and respect for one's self and others. It lies with the slow eroding of family values and teaching of morals. That's not code for anything, it just simply means that most boys won't act like that when they have a solid, working father figure in their life that respects women. It means that when families eat together, instead of in front of the TV or at a fast food restaurant every night, their son can be taught respect for his mother, sister and female relatives. He can learn to honor them instead of objectifying them.

 

Darn it....see, I got on my soap box again.  Sorry.

 

 

for the most part, that sounds about right.  :/ 

 

I think instant gratification is a big one in that mix, and the BSA is catering to that problem year in and year out unfortunately.  

Edited July 31, 2017 by Gwaihir

[MattR]

This is one of those situations where I have to remind myself that not all people that talk about morals are good. But still, this is disheartening. The fact that one young women even thought of bringing a body camera says a lot to how bad things are.

 

So why weren't there any boy Scouts backing up Scourge? My guess is the scouts that made all these stupid comments would not have done this if there were adults around or if any scouts had told them to shut up. Something about your character is best shown when nobody important is around.

 

How about the irony of this situation? One of the speakers at the jamboree has a history of saying crude things to women. But we had to invite him or else we'd get into a discussion about freedom of speech. Scouts have a high standard but our elected leaders don't. How confusing is that to a kid?

 

Don't think I'm picking on just one side. So many of us hate the other guy so much that anything is justified.

[Stosh]

When one pushes the age of real maturity in the mid-30's and early 40's, one can expect the growth at the teen years to be retarded  I like to compare it to the college students of my era (1960's) to today's college student.  We protested a war, they protest having to pay off their loans.  Kinda makes one wonder how far

 

In a lot of countries the conference of adulthood is in the early teens.  I can't imagine our 13 year olds going out and killing a lion to prove his manhood or a woman in her early teens giving birth to a child.  There are cultures out there that think this as normal.  I guess the big move to adulthood is moving out of your parents basement sometime after you turn 30.

[mashmaster]

I strongly can attest to your son's assessment of unscoutlike behavior at the 2017 Jamboree.  So many of my fellow crew members were stolen from.  Entire backpacks, chargers, patches, phones, shoes, anything.  My biggest problem was catcalling.  As a female venture scout, me and other females were constantly being catcalled and made uncomfortable.  A boy said he would enter the youth female changing tent while I was in there. I yelled at him (not a nice thing at all) from inside the tent and he ran away.  My friend was patch trading down in Charlie and decided not to make a trade.  Because of this she was called a "dumb whore".  I was throwing away trash and a scout tried to grab my attention yelling "Hey baby mama!" I decided to ignore it and keep walking.  But he ran in front of me, looked me up and down and said " Wassup baby mama!?"  I tried to address his behavior but he went away.  I wanted to talk to his scout master but lost him in the huge crowds.  I was also walking back from a show last night.  A boy approached my friend and told her. "Ma'am you dropped something." she looked at the ground confused.  He said "You dropped your standards, hi, I'm Issac."  Then less than a minute later a scout walked up behind me and sounded like a broken record saying "Romance, romance, I want a romance, romance, romance, I want a romance!" The entire time us venture scouts were treated like novelties that were there to be flirted with and embarrassed.  This made me lose a lot of respect for the BSA.  If it's ok to treat women like that with no consequences whatsoever, what kind of organization is it? 

I am so sorry you had to deal with this.  None of this is acceptable in any situation.  Sadly, as others have pointed out, they are mimicking bad behavior they have learned somewhere and think it is ok. 

[Rick_in_CA]

I have no clue where this problem lies. Actually, that's not true. I do have a suspicion where it lies but it is not a popular one and will likely make me sound like the old Dana Carvey character on SNL, "Grumpy Old Man".

 

I think the problem lies with society. It lies with the video games kids play (and parents allow). It lies with the TV shows networks air and what passes for entertainment. It lies with instant gratification. It lies with the "trophies for everyone" mentality. It lies with the social media approach to news, information and narcissistic display of one-upsmanship we see every day. It lies with the lack of manners and respect for one's self and others. It lies with the slow eroding of family values and teaching of morals. That's not code for anything, it just simply means that most boys won't act like that when they have a solid, working father figure in their life that respects women. It means that when families eat together, instead of in front of the TV or at a fast food restaurant every night, their son can be taught respect for his mother, sister and female relatives. He can learn to honor them instead of objectifying them.

Actually I don’t think things are that much different now then they were 30, 40 or 50 years ago. There have always been a segment of our society that believe that women shouldn’t <insert here>, and that they are entitled to harass women that <insert here> anyway.

 

I think it may have been worse at jambo because of the anonymity of the whole thing, 40,000 people? And the scouts aren’t really with their troop mates, but with council contingents. It probably makes the bad apples feel freer to misbehave.

 

And the way I have heard some male scouters talk about girls and women in the BSA lately (about either female leaders, or the hypothetical female boy scouts) is rather derogatory to females. If these scouters talk this way in front of the scouts, they are communicating to the scouts that girls don’t belong in the BSA because they will “ruin itâ€. How do you think that effects the male scouts attitudes to female scouts?

 

Just look at the history of women trying to enter new career fields. The harassment and disrespect women got (and sometimes still get) for trying to be officer workers, engineers, construction workers, police officers, firemen, military officers, doctors, lawyers, etc.

 

I had a female coworker that was a former girl scout. She went camping and backpacking with her unit a lot (this was in the late 50s and early 60s). She talked about the terrible times her unit sometimes had when they had the misfortune of camping near a boy scout unit. Catcalls, stolen clothing, sand, itching powder and worse in their sleeping bags, etc (including one attempted gang rape - the fact that their girl scout leader had a revolver stopped things. She did remember units that were “perfect gentlemen†- she told a story of a boy scout troop that invited her troop over for dinner. They put out an amazing spread that made the girl scouts seriously rethink the definition of “camp cookingâ€). So I don’t think it’s really all that new.

[Rick_in_CA]

When one pushes the age of real maturity in the mid-30's and early 40's, one can expect the growth at the teen years to be retarded  I like to compare it to the college students of my era (1960's) to today's college student.  We protested a war, they protest having to pay off their loans.  Kinda makes one wonder how far

 

In a lot of countries the conference of adulthood is in the early teens.  I can't imagine our 13 year olds going out and killing a lion to prove his manhood or a woman in her early teens giving birth to a child.  There are cultures out there that think this as normal.  I guess the big move to adulthood is moving out of your parents basement sometime after you turn 30.

When I was a child, my first babysitters were 12 and 13 year olds. Now 12 and 13 year olds need babysitters. Not a good trend.

[Back Pack]

Really? Not new? Maybe not but the Col.'s points are still valid.

[DuctTape]

The stated mission of the bsa is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices... IMO, The real mission in many cases has been reduced to patch and award ackowledgement. When one method (advancement) becomes the goal instead of a means or a metric, the true mission is obscured. I believe the most important requirement in advancement is the scout spirit; demonstrating they live by the scout oath and law. It used to be the First requirement, for good reason. In many cases it has been relegated to an automatically checked-off box. I remember when "being a boy scout" meant (sometimes pejoratively) as a person who did the right thing.

 

Scourge, I apologize to you and everyone else for the behaviors of these boys. IMO, they are not scouts, they just wear the patch.

[SSScout]

"Stuff happens".

 

Scoutson staffed at the 2010 Jamboree.  We drove him down and helped him schlep his trunk etc. to his staff camp, and met his roomies. shook hands/hugged him goodbye and left.  

 

When we picked him up twelve days later,  he was tan and fit and had stories to tell. One of them involved the number of staffers that were kicked out on the second or third day for marijuana use.  He also said he was glad I suggested a padlock on his trunk, as others reported stuff missing....

 

Sad. 

[RememberSchiff]

I should be able to drop my wallet at a scout camp, have it found by a trustworthy scout, and returned intact.

 

Knock, Knock, Knock.

 

Huh?

 

Hello Mr. Schiff. Ready to go to Old Scouter Home In Trees?