New Eagle Palm Policy, August 2017

[NJCubScouter]

This is always going to happen every time someone "changes the rules in the middle of the game".

 

That's true, but in this case it's always "the middle of the game."  The only other choice is to keep every rule and requirement exactly the same forever, and the BSA isn't going to do that, and shouldn't do that.  (Although, as I have said many times, I wish they would change the advancement requirements less often, and I have very mixed feelings (leaning toward "thumbs down") on this particular change.)

[NJCubScouter]

This might not come up at all but...  I have a scout in my troop who took forever with his eagle project, passed his Eagle board a week before he turned 18.   But he had earned 27 merit badges.   

 

If he comes asking " How come the scouts who eagle next month with extra badges get to wear palms and I don't?"  I really really don't know how to answer him.

 

Part of me says Well those were the rules at the time. Unfair or not the rules were the rules.   The other part says  Just hand the young man a bronze palm and tell him its up to him to wear it or not.

 

Oldscout

 

I think many troops are going to have Scouts who fall on one side of this line or another, by a few weeks or months.  Our troop does.  It's going to seem "unfair" to the boys who fall just on the wrong side of line.  Either of your two solutions sound reasonable to me.

[Scout12]

This might not come up at all but...  I have a scout in my troop who took forever with his eagle project, passed his Eagle board a week before he turned 18.   But he had earned 27 merit badges.   

 

If he comes asking " How come the scouts who eagle next month with extra badges get to wear palms and I don't?"  I really really don't know how to answer him.

 

Part of me says Well those were the rules at the time. Unfair or not the rules were the rules.   The other part says  Just hand the young man a bronze palm and tell him its up to him to wear it or not.

 

Oldscout

Our Eagle is in the same boat as of mid June....Make all of them retroactive to fit the new norm!!

[Eagle94-A1]

Our Eagle is in the same boat as of mid June....Make all of them retroactive to fit the new norm!!

 

I agree make it retroactive to 1927 when they first came out. heck, lets go back to 1912.

 

As you can guess, I was part of the 94% who thought the 3 months tenure per palm as a good thing.

[Stosh]

I totally understand the emotional reaction to the injustice of this change, but it leaves me uneasy how the Scout Law is torqued to fit by retro-dating the records.  I guess I would be more worried about the message being sent to the scouts just to get a piece of bling for their Eagle ribbon.  I guess it's just a slippery slope I don't want to be on.

[DuctTape]

I am with Stosh on this. I do not care for the new change, but will follow it and the Scout Law by communicating my disagreement and working to change it.

[Eagle94-A1]

Sorry about the sarcasm. As you can imagine, I am in total disagreement on this. The palms were meant to be more than bling. They were meant to show going above and beyond by not only earning MBs, but continuing to give back to the Troop by continuing to serve. Now it's bling and has no meaning. If someone works the system, they can wait until they earn all 140+ MBs then have their EBOR, get all the palms, then quit. No further commitment. 

[Stosh]

Sorry about the sarcasm. As you can imagine, I am in total disagreement on this. The palms were meant to be more than bling. They were meant to show going above and beyond by not only earning MBs, but continuing to give back to the Troop by continuing to serve. Now it's bling and has no meaning. If someone works the system, they can wait until they earn all 140+ MBs then have their EBOR, get all the palms, then quit. No further commitment. 

 

Yes, I do think there will always be those that seek the bling and put in the time and effort to acquire palms post-Eagle, but I'm thinking they are far and few between.  After all, one can make a strong case for Eagle under the same circumstances, and mark college applications and employment resumes.  This process has not changed for those scouts.    If a scout hasn't internalized the Scout Law and Promise by the time he has earned Eagle, no amount of palms is going to change that.

[Col. Flagg]

Sorry about the sarcasm. As you can imagine, I am in total disagreement on this. The palms were meant to be more than bling. They were meant to show going above and beyond by not only earning MBs, but continuing to give back to the Troop by continuing to serve. Now it's bling and has no meaning. If someone works the system, they can wait until they earn all 140+ MBs then have their EBOR, get all the palms, then quit. No further commitment. 

 

I have a Scout who is 16 and ready for his EBOR. I explained that if he waited a few weeks (this was late June, early July) he'd get his 4 Palms at our summer COH in a few weeks. He didn't want too and so he had his EBOR. We posted this news on the change to palms to all parents and scouts via email, posted on the troop website, special email to all Life Scouts (and parents) and posted on our social media pages. All covered, right?

 

Over the weekend the parents of Mr. Give It To Me Now sent an email, all hot and bothered that their son would now how to EARN his 4 Palms over the next year, rather than get all four at once. We directed them to the myriad of correspondences on the issue and their son's own email on how he "didn't care about the palms and just wanted Eagle ASAP".

 

Shows me a few things. Palms meant nothing to the young man. Parents don't read...until too late...and then will complain about anything. 

 

(The kid is fine with his decision. Still says he doesn't care about "meaningless" palms)

Edited July 31, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[Eagle94-A1]

Yes, I do think there will always be those that seek the bling and put in the time and effort to acquire palms post-Eagle, but I'm thinking they are far and few between.  After all, one can make a strong case for Eagle under the same circumstances, and mark college applications and employment resumes.  This process has not changed for those scouts.    If a scout hasn't internalized the Scout Law and Promise by the time he has earned Eagle, no amount of palms is going to change that.

 

Don't remind me about those seeking Eagle for the resume. Had one dad tell me he cannot wait for BSA to go coed so his daughter can earn both Eagle and  GSUSA's Gold Award.

[fred johnson]

LOTS of controversy on this one. Especially since it went against 94% of those surveyed.

 

Can you point me to that survey ?

[qwazse]

I think many troops are going to have Scouts who fall on one side of this line or another, by a few weeks or months.  Our troop does.  It's going to seem "unfair" to the boys who fall just on the wrong side of line.  Either of your two solutions sound reasonable to me.

The reason it seems unfair, is not because there is a wrong side of the line. It's because there is a line.

 

Some lines are intuitive. (E.g., you can't go make last century's Eagles decipher EDGE before permitting them to wear their medal again.) This one is not. An Eagle Scout with all of his cards already knows the badges he earned and when he earned them ... there is no extra work involved in ordering the award. "These twenty six were before Eagle, those 5 were three months after, the next 5 were half a year after, etc.. Please ... pass the catch-up Palm."

 

There is just no logical reason why the change needs to be there. But if it is, there is no logical reason (aside from brute ageism) why it should apply to some Eagles and not others.

[Col. Flagg]

There is just no logical reason why the change needs to be there. But if it is, there is no logical reason (aside from brute ageism) why it should apply to some Eagles and not others.

 

Maybe I missed it, but did BSA give a reason (real or contrived) about why the change is being made?

[wdfa89]

Here is a question:  using the scenario in Col's post 114 kid gets his Eagle.  3 mos later puts in for the palm, wouldn't he be entitled to collect them all then?  New rule would be in place.  If the principle is now when you Eagle you get all your entitled palms I would think, using same logic, when you earn your first palm post 1 Aug you collect them all and not have to wait 3 mos per.

[Col. Flagg]

Here is a question:  using the scenario in Col's post 114 kid gets his Eagle.  3 mos later puts in for the palm, wouldn't he be entitled to collect them all then?  New rule would be in place.  If the principle is now when you Eagle you get all your entitled palms I would think, using same logic, when you earn your first palm post 1 Aug you collect them all and not have to wait 3 mos per.

 

If you have your EBOR tonight (7/31) and are eligible for three palms, you have to work 9 months to get them.

 

If you have your EBOR tomorrow (8/1) and are eligible for three palms, you get them at your ECOH without waiting. All subsequent palms you must meet the new requirements for.