HelpfulTracks Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 An Eagle with no palms indicate that the boy did just enough to get Eagle. If he were to earn MB palms along the way, it would show that he did more than just the minimum, too. Just enough to get Eagle? If he met the requirements and passed BoR, an Eagle is an Eagle, 21 merit badges or 121. I know a number of Eagles that have no palms, but did plenty of Scouting, myself included. Our last 6 Eagles all made it right before their 18th birthday. They had maybe 200 MB's between them and no palms (except for the last 2 that fell under the new rule). Earlier this year one finished is second term as SPL just before getting Eagle (no palms as he was under the old rule). The last two Eagles attended Jamboree just a few weeks before their 18th birthday, and one of them served on Summer Camp staff the last 3 years. (both get palms because their BoR's were after August1.) I had over 50 MB's, no palms because after turning Life at 15 I finished my project the month before my 18th. As life I attended 2 high adventure bases, held multiple PoR, including 2-3 stints as SPL, served in OA, (I attended Jambo just before turning Life). The point is palms are not a measure of an Eagle. Of all the Eagles I have met over the years, the topic of how many palms they earned has never come up. I used to not give palms much thought. On occasion, I thought it would have been cool to have a couple, but it never bothered me that I didn't. I thought of it as an award, like 50 miler, Paul Bunyan, Historic Trails and World Conservation. I don't have an issue with the rule change, but with all the nashing of teeth over the change and parsing out Eagles based on palms, I almost wish they would do away with it, or at least find a way to detach it from Eagle Rank. I think that to much emphasis is being put on palms and what they mean, particularly compared to other awards like Hornaday and NMOA, both of which require a great deal of effort to earn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZScout5 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 October 2017 Update Adds in Eagles not yet 18 by August 1, 2017. https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 October 2017 Update Adds in Eagles not yet 18 by August 1, 2017. https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org Wait... what? They revised it AGAIN?? As I read the NEW revised policy, it does not affect any members of our troop, but I am sure it will affect boys in many troops. They sure are making this unnecessarily complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Wait... what? They revised it AGAIN?? As I read the NEW revised policy, it does not affect any members of our troop, but I am sure it will affect boys in many troops. They sure are making this unnecessarily complicated. It's quite simple, NJ. Eagle scouts born after 7/31/1999 and registered on 8/1/2017 may review their records to see if they qualify for insta-palms. What could be simpler? O yeah, no dates whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 It's quite simple, NJ. Eagle scouts born after 7/31/1999 and registered on 8/1/2017 may review their records to see if they qualify for insta-palms. I guess. But I don't think it's really fair to call them insta-palms. I think the Scouts who will get palms from these rule changes have generally spent the three months active in the troop and in a POR, and then some, BEFORE they make Eagle. It is typical in our troop to have kids make Life at 13 or 14, and then Eagle with time running out when they are 17. For the 3 or 4 years in between, these Scouts are active in the troop - we generally don't have kids who disappear for a long time and then come back to make Eagle - and they are generally serving in a POR for that entire time period, which is far longer than they need for advancement. In other words, they have had the same level of activity and have given (at least) the same amount of service to the troop as the kid who makes Eagle at 15 and then earns palms in the traditional manner. They're just doing things in a different order. What could be simpler? O yeah, no dates whatsoever. Yeah, yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I am now confused again as is our awards chair. Here is my question again: (1) Son #2 has completed all his Eagle requirements, paperwork, and application. He has 40 Merit Badges. Council has approved and sent on to National. He will age out in 1 month. However, due to scheduling his EBOR will likely be AFTER he turns 18. Should he be awarded Eagle Palms? Our awards chair's interpretation is no. (2) Council clerk has told our Life to Eagle chair (who picks up the Eagle award kits for the ECOH's) that from now on Eagle Kits for boys getting their award AFTER 18 will NOT contain the Eagle Patch but the Knot. Really? Is this true or a clerk over-reach. (We figured we sew on the Eagle patch on his old scout shirt for a memento). He never cared much about it before but thinking he might get them/not get them is leaving a bad taste in his mouth. Which is a shame since he would like to stay on as a ASM or do Venturing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I guess. But I don't think it's really fair to call them insta-palms. I think the Scouts who will get palms from these rule changes have generally spent the three months active in the troop and in a POR, and then some, BEFORE they make Eagle. It is typical in our troop to have kids make Life at 13 or 14, and then Eagle with time running out when they are 17. For the 3 or 4 years in between, these Scouts are active in the troop - we generally don't have kids who disappear for a long time and then come back to make Eagle - and they are generally serving in a POR for that entire time period, which is far longer than they need for advancement. In other words, they have had the same level of activity and have given (at least) the same amount of service to the troop as the kid who makes Eagle at 15 and then earns palms in the traditional manner. They're just doing things in a different order. Yeah, yeah. Background- My son never went away and came back...he spent the last two years being heavily involved as SPL, Quartermaster, and OA Rep. He went hard core the whole period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) I am now confused again as is our awards chair. Here is my question again: (1) Son #2 has completed all his Eagle requirements, paperwork, and application. He has 40 Merit Badges. Council has approved and sent on to National. He will age out in 1 month. However, due to scheduling his EBOR will likely be AFTER he turns 18. Should he be awarded Eagle Palms? Our awards chair's interpretation is no. (2) Council clerk has told our Life to Eagle chair (who picks up the Eagle award kits for the ECOH's) that from now on Eagle Kits for boys getting their award AFTER 18 will NOT contain the Eagle Patch but the Knot. Really? Is this true or a clerk over-reach. (We figured we sew on the Eagle patch on his old scout shirt for a memento). He never cared much about it before but thinking he might get them/not get them is leaving a bad taste in his mouth. Which is a shame since he would like to stay on as a ASM or do Venturing.... I was writing an answer to #1 but then I realized that I'm not sure I understand the question. You say your son's application has been "sent on to National", that your son is still 17 and that he will likely have his EBOR after his 18th birthday. My understanding of the process (from the 12-15 EBOR's I have sat on, and from my son's own journey to Eagle) is that nothing gets sent to National until AFTER his EBOR. So has he had his EBOR yet or not? But I think he gets the palms either way. If he has his EBOR after his birthday I think he gets them under the first revision. If he already had his EBOR, then when the paperwork comes back from National, then he will be Eagle as of the EBOR date, and if the EBOR was before August 1 he will get the palms under the first revision, and he had his EBOR after August 1 he will get them under the second revision, because he has not turned 18 yet. At least, I think that's correct. As for # 2, I have not heard of that in our council, and I hope I never do. The Scout should be entitled to the Eagle patch even if he can never wear it. Edited October 30, 2017 by NJCubScouter I mixed up before and after. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 NJ...thanks. I am pretty sure his EBOR will take place after his 18th as he is running into the holidays. As for item#2 there are work-arounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 TT, tell TurtleSon2 congratulations and that, not to worry, you know strangers on the internet who will get him a patch in spite of the ageist impertinence of his registrar. Yes, he is deserving of 3 insta-palms. All that background about continuing to develop leadership blah blah blah is inconsequential. By this new definition, he is on par with a life scout who checked out 4 years ago and came back to some troop somewhere the month before last to wrap up his Eagle project before aging out. Thus, why I, in spite of NJ's protests, will continue to call them insta-palms. The timing of EBoRs is an entirely an adult manufactured problem. That's partly why we're in this mess in the first place. Please ask your awards chair to not make matters worse by denying TurtleSon2 his right of refusal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) NJ...thanks. I am pretty sure his EBOR will take place after his 18th as he is running into the holidays. As for item#2 there are work-arounds. Item 1: Then he is exactly the Scout who the first version of the change was intended to apply to. His EBOR will be after August 1, so it doesn't matter when his birthday is. (As opposed to Scouts whose EBOR was before August 1, who only get the palms if their 18th birthday is also before August 1.) Again, that assumes I understand this correctly. Item 2: There are, which is how my son (who had his EBOR near the end of 2009) has both the "regular" version of the Eagle patch, which was in his kit, and the "centennial" version, which was not. Edited October 30, 2017 by NJCubScouter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Son#2 calls them 'instapalms' now too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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