Webelos khaki uniform question

[Eagle94-A1]

We voted back in the day on Webelos patches. It's been a while... :-) Is the Cub Scout Insignia guide linked above old? It shows the options on the pocket. Not stirring the pot here, just observing.

 

 

Most current

 

No special respect due; the fact is my friend worked at a Scout Store for years and he was never required to be an expert on uniforming (good thing because he never was, bless his heart). And when the lady who supervises all the stores in my area can't even remember which Scouting roles wear which colored epaulet loops, I'm afraid I can't agree with you. In my Scout Shop they get things wrong all the time, as they do in the Regional Shop as well. A Scout Shop employee is just not going to be a reliable expert on uniforming, nor do their opinions necessarily reflect national policy. The best bet is to look at the official publications or ask somebody whose opinions you can trust.

 

WOW. A lot has changed since I worked for National Supply. Heck a lot has changed since 2009 when I last needed advice from a National Scout Shop. My old manager expected us to know the Insignia Guide as it was called then so that we could answer questions. If we didn't know the answer it went up the food chain. I remember the boss calling her boss, the associate director for Southern Region, to get an answer to a question one time!

 

Then again, upon reflection maybeI should not be surprised.  I've had some "challenges" with national supply folks who had no concept or expereince in the program.

 

On that note, I do see to my shock that the Official Guide does in fact authorize the diamond rank emblems on the blue shirt. Twist! This is not the same as what is printed in the Webelos Den Leader's Manual, nor in the Webelos Handbook (I just reviewed them this morning to be sure). But as that is the case, I rescind my previous statement and grant that they can opt for the rank diamond option if they please. My apologies for being wrong; still, in my Den we are sticking with blue on blue and tan on tan, and never the twain shall meet! Less sewing for my parents. 

 

No worries. IMHO that's another example of the left hand at national not knowing what the right hand is doing.

[ScoutTN]

There are three different ways to have the left pocket, according to the guide. We chose the Large Webelos badge for my boys. Looks better, at least to our den. The boys decided.

 

Yes, I've read the official info, both on the website and from the handout the Scout store people gave me. The official info didn't answer my original question. That's why I asked here. 

 

Thanks for all the replies! Nice to see such an active board. 

He needs a uniform shirt for camp Monday. First Pack meeting for this coming year is not til late August and Den meeting a week after that. 

I have emailed the Cubmaster. 

 

Thinking I will send him to camp without any rank insignia on his shirt and we'll figure it out in August. All the rest is on the shirt and he has a hat, slide and neckerchief. Good enough! 

 

P.S. This board uses the same format as a couple others I know. Y'all need more fun emojis! Surely someone has made some funny scouting emojis?! 

Edited July 5, 2017 by ScoutTN

[Cleveland Rocks]

The problem with the diamond patches arises for those that have been in it since Tiger Cubs, as the Tiger Cub diamond badge is in the same position that the Webelos diamond badge goes.  I've always instructed my Webelos families when upgrading to the tan shirt to leave their previous diamond patches on the blue shirt, and they'll get the oval Webelos badge when he's earned it.

 

I point out to the families that they may certainly transfer the badges from the blue shirt to the tan if they wish, but they will have a dilemma to deal with when it comes time to get the Webelos badge, because you'd have to (a) remove the Tiger Cub badge in order to put the diamond Webelos badge on (nearly all the Cubs I've worked with have been in it since Tigers), (b) remove all the diamond badges you just put on to put on a diamond Webelos badge (I don't recommend this, and I only buy diamond badges for those still in the blue uniforms), or © have a blank pocket to begin with and put the oval Webelos badge on.

 

I would recommend leaving the pocket blank and when he earns the Webelos badge, he'll get an oval one to go there, and when he later earns the Arrow of Light, it'll go beneath the pocket.  Much, much easier to deal with. Plus, he'll still have his blue shirt with his previous badges on them as a memento. Now, while you don't fall into this situation, as your son hasn't been in since Tigers, I'd still follow this practice.  The tan shirt isn't designed for the diamond Cub Scout badges, and even though the Insignia Guide says you can wear them, it will have overlap off the pocket and will definitely look funny once you get them on.

[Stosh]

I would think (being a basically lazy person myself) that taking off all those diamond patches just to sew on the new tan one is kinda sewing overkill.  Take the blue shirt, pack it away with all the patches in the scout's memorabilia bin and start fresh with a new tan (2 sizes too big) and wait for the Webelos patch.  Once they get the AOL bar, then sew that on.  Then one only has to take off the Webelos patch and replace with scout rank as he earns them.  Far simpler in the long run.

 

Like @qwazse mentions DON"T DO THE BADGE MAGIC thing.  Obviously as the boy progresses, he will need to be able to take off the old badge and put the new one on.  Learn to sew, it's not all that hard and if it's not on perfectly straight, it tells me 1) he's sewed it himself or 2) his mother can't sew either.  I always opt for #1.    Yes, I have taught scouts to sew, it's not all that hard.

[ScoutTN]

Thanks for the additional replies. As I mentioned upthread, I am familiar with what the official BSA guidelines say.

 

I also know the pros and cons of Badge Magic vs. sewing. I have an older child in another scouting organization, so btdt. Not soliciting advice on that issue. 

 

We left his blue shirt intact. Never had any intention of taking his Bear and Bobcat badges off that. 

I got the khaki shirt from a friend, and it fits him with enough room for both Webelos years, but not likely beyond. It too will remain as a keepsake, after he crosses over to the troop.

 

For now he will go with an empty left pocket and we'll wait to see what his Cubmaster says. I like the oval webelos patch.  

[qwazse]

.... Not soliciting advice on that issue. ....

 

Yep we're all about unsolicited advice!

That, and @@Stosh told us not to beat a dead horse after a topic was marked solved. Yours was the first after he spouted that tidbit. So I figured it was a good opportunity to tenderize those steaks in spite of him.

 

Good scouting to you, and thanks in advance for all you do for the boys.

[thrifty]

No one mentioned Velcro.  Am I the only one to use Velcro on my son's khaki uniform?  Love it.  I've never found blue but the tan works perfectly for his bsa uniform and we trim it to fit the badges so it's not very visible to begin with.  Not a big square like the military.

 

With the different scout ranks, patrols and troop leadership positions, the patches could constantly change.  We put the soft part on the uniform and the hooked part on the patches.  When my son advances a rank it's easy to just pull off the old one with a quick rip. Trim the self adhesive Velcro to fit the back of the new patch, apply a little pressure and stick the new one to the uniform.  He's smaller and he just outgrew his first khaki shirt.  His newest shirt has Velcro for every patch.  He'll probably outgrow at least one more shirt so this way we can just pull off all the patches and stick them on the next size.  Our council will also be changing names in the near future and changing that patch will be easier now.

 

He's never lost a patch on trips and camping.  The uniform is washed with the patches on and nothing has ever come off.  We use Velcro Brand Sticky Back for Fabrics 6"x4" beige tape.  It's found in our local craft stores and worth every penny.  It might take more than one to do a lot of patches but we save the smaller clippings and use those too.  It will not be possible to ever remove the soft Velcro from the uniform.  It becomes permanently glued on but if you trim the stuff to patch size, if you donated the uniform to someone else and they wanted to sew patches on, the Velcro would be covered anyway.

 

Merit badges are still sewn to the sash.

[Col. Flagg]

Not a velcro fan. Does not look a crisp as a good sewing job which only takes just a bit more effort...and teaches a great skill.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[thrifty]

Not a velcro fan. Does not look a crisp as a good sewing job which only takes just a bit more effort...and teaches a great skill.

 

I would debate with you about sewing being a great skill but that's not the intention of this thread (pun intended).  I was taught sewing in home economics class back in the 6th grade and in the decades that have passed I have only used it to sew on an occasional button or my son's patches.  I'm not saying its worthless but I would rate it lower than many of my other skills I use daily or weekly.  The wife doesn't sew at all.

 

I can also say that at least all of my son's patches are on his uniform and easily updated unlike many of the others in the troop.  Funny, CC (middle age mother of two if it makes any difference) was just at my house last night and complained about the sewing.  Scouts have gone into BOR with wrong ranks and offices because they didn't want to be bothered with the patches.  I also don't like the patch area of the shirt after patches have been sewn and removed several times for officer or rank.  IMO it weakens those areas greatly, not that it matters a lot.

[Stosh]

I have sewn patches and buttons on uniform shirts, tears in uniform pants, split seams on backpacks, holes in tents...when I was an advisor for Venturing reenactors, I sewed complete uniforms (12 Confederate uniforms, both coat and pants (no zippers, buttons and button holes only), and along with the occasional leather goods due to wear along with field modifications and tears that come with usage.  My dog tent with multiple buttons and sewn grommets is also 100% made by me.  Sewing on a button is a piece of cake compared to making and reinforcing the button holes.  Making kepis and forage hats is quite the challenge.  I also made a few bucks along the way in that reenactors looking for true authenticity, will pay $75-$85 for a completely hand-sewn shirt that costs <$10 in materials.

 

Other than that I find sewing quite relaxing in the evening.

 

My sister is a year older than me and growing up did all the housework, laundry, cooking, dishes, sewing, ironing, etc.  When she went away for college my mom turned to me and said it was my turn next.  I learned to do all of these things that senior year of high school.  Best year of my life.  I learned skills I have used every day since then, scouting is no exception.

 

I find it difficult to accept the excuse that sewing on a button or patch is too much work for an 11 year-old to learn.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Stosh

[Eagle94-A1]

I wish I knew how to sew with a machine. The two times I tried, the people working with me gave up, did the job themselves, and suggested classes.  So I only hand sew.  IT IS A VALUABLE LIFE SKILL! (emphasis, not shouting) Not only have I sewed numerous patches and buttons, But I have also used them to fix packs and tents. I also did several sets of regalia, both Northern Traditional and Straight, by hand. It's not that difficult.

 

A buddy of mine had the velcro rank patch set up. We were constantly joking with him, "You don't deserve this," and take it off.

[The Latin Scot]

I would debate with you about sewing being a great skill but that's not the intention of this thread (pun intended).  I was taught sewing in home economics class back in the 6th grade and in the decades that have passed I have only used it to sew on an occasional button or my son's patches.  I'm not saying its worthless but I would rate it lower than many of my other skills I use daily or weekly.  The wife doesn't sew at all.

 

I can also say that at least all of my son's patches are on his uniform and easily updated unlike many of the others in the troop.  Funny, CC (middle age mother of two if it makes any difference) was just at my house last night and complained about the sewing.  Scouts have gone into BOR with wrong ranks and offices because they didn't want to be bothered with the patches.  I also don't like the patch area of the shirt after patches have been sewn and removed several times for officer or rank.  IMO it weakens those areas greatly, not that it matters a lot.

Wow ... this actually sounds like a validation for sewing if ever there was one!

 

See, if people really know how to sew, there is no visible mark on the shirt after patches are removed because the stitching is neat and the thread is a proper match. When you remove it, you simply undo the threadwork and there's little evidence that the former patch was there (unlike a giant blank patch of velcro waiting for its new patch - and what happens when that bit of velcro is itself removed, I might ask?). Also, sewing on a new patch takes maybe 10 - 15 minutes. Are our lives so impossibly hectic that we don't have a few minutes to sit and sew on a small patch? If so, we need to re-prioritize some things. Now, if I see a Scout walk into a Board of Review with the wrong patches, I don't blame sewing for being too hard. I don't blame his mother for not getting it done, heaven forbid. It's the boy's fault! A small infraction, mind you, but let's not blame the skill (or lack thereof) for the problem.

 

And as the son of a tailor, I apologize, but sewing is an invaluable skill that really has no replacement. My clothing lasts far longer that that of my friends because when something tears, I can fix it up, and if it gets worn, I can mend it. If I bulk up a bit at the gym I can alter pants or jackets accordingly, and when I slim down I can tailor them back to size. I can hem my own pants and modify my shirts - in fact my Scout uniform is even tailored to fit just right!. And my father the seamster can do a hundred times more. He upholsters the furniture, makes curtains, bedding, tablecloths, pillows, shirts, dresses, costumes - he made my sisters dolls when they were young and their prom and wedding dresses when they were older, he made us incredible Halloween costumes growing up - over the years my family has saved thousands of dollars that other families have to spend to buy all those things. So, while I apologize for the rant, I stick to the truth that for those who understand its manifold applications, sewing is a priceless skill.