Webelos khaki uniform question

[ScoutTN]

New here. Only our second year in scouting. Please redirect me if this belongs on another sub-forum. 

 

Ds is a Web1 and headed to resident camp next week. Our pack Webs wear the khaki shirt.

Got his uniform this week and the pockets are pleated and fasten with velcro, not a button. So the plastic bagde holder won't work. (I don't like those much anyway.) He has a Bobcat and a Bear rank patches to go on the left pocket, but the Bear one won't fit without overlapping the edge of the pocket, which is not flush with the rest of the shirt. Poplin shirt, not microfiber. 

 

How do I put the rank badges on? Underlap the pocket flap a bit to make them both fit? Allow the Bear patch to hang off the edge of the pocket? 

 

He will get his Webelos rank in February and I think we will go to the oval patch to simplify. Because of the change, I will likely sew rather than use badge magic. 

 

Thanks for the help! 

 

 

[RememberSchiff]

@ScoutTN  welcome to scouter.com

Edited July 4, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[T2Eagle]

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/CubScout_Insignia.pdf

 

Here is the official insignia page. I would have the bear overlap the pocket, and I would sew right through the pocket and give up any pretense that he's ever going to actually put anything in that pocket.

Edited July 4, 2017 by T2Eagle

[The Latin Scot]

If a Webelos Scout wears the khaki uniform, he does NOT wear his past rank patches as he would on the blue uniform. That practice does not carry over to the khaki-and-olive; rather, that pocket is left alone until he earns his Webelos rank,  at which point he wears the OVAL, khaki Webelos rank patch, not the blue diamond-shaped one. Then, when he earns his Arrow of Light, that patch is placed under his left pocket, and remains there throughout the rest of his youth Scouting career. That Webelos rank patch is later replaced with his Scout rank patch soon after crossing over (very soon if his Webelos leaders did their jobs right). 

 

The uniform he wears determines the patches that are worn with it; since he has the khaki uniform, he automatically wears the oval patch and forgoes the wearing of his past patches (which I have found ends up saving parents a lot of trouble as they switch over uniforms!)  As a Webelos Den Leader myself, I usually recommend the switch, along with the counsel to get the uniform a bit large so that the boy has room to grown into it. 

 

Hope this helps! And welcome to the forums!

Edited July 4, 2017 by The Latin Scot

[ScoutTN]

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/CubScout_Insignia.pdf

 

Here is the official insignia page. I would have the bear overlap the pocket, and I would sew right through the pocket and give up any pretense that he's ever going to actually put anything in that pocket.

 

Thanks for the idea! That would work fine.

 

I have the official info page. It didn't answer my question because it doesn't address the shirts with the deeper pockets. 

[ScoutTN]

If a Webelos Scout wears the khaki uniform, he does NOT wear his past rank patches as he would on the blue uniform. That practice does not carry over to the khaki-and-olive; rather, that pocket is left alone until he earns his Webelos rank,  at which point he wears the OVAL, khaki Webelos rank patch, not the blue diamond-shaped one. Then, when he earns his Arrow of Light, that patch is placed under his left pocket, and remains there throughout the rest of his youth Scouting career. That Webelos rank patch is later replaced with his Scout rank patch soon after crossing over (very soon if his Webelos leaders did their jobs right). 

 

The uniform he wears determines the patches that are worn with it; since he has the khaki uniform, he automatically wears the oval patch and forgoes the wearing of his past patches (which I have found ends up saving parents a lot of trouble as they switch over uniforms!)  As a Webelos Den Leader myself, I usually recommend the switch, along with the counsel to get the uniform a bit large so that the boy has room to grown into it. 

 

Hope this helps! And welcome to the forums!

 

 

Thanks. Your answer makes sense, but conflicts with the official info page and the info that came from the scout store with his uniform. 

[Scoutmaster Teddy]

There are three different ways to have the left pocket, according to the guide. We chose the Large Webelos badge for my boys. Looks better, at least to our den. The boys decided.

[Stosh]

's recommendation makes sense.  As long as all the boys do the same thing (pick the easiest) no one will even know the difference.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Stosh

[qwazse]

@@ScoutTN, welcome to the forum!

 

I'm pretty picky about uniforming, but I got nothing! I'd go with Stosh's suggestion about the boys in the den picking what works best for them (and their parents who might be teaching them to sew patches -- hint hint ).

 

I am strongly opinionated against badge magic. It can ruin a good shirt for the scout to whom it would be handed down. So there's that, if it helps.

[The Latin Scot]

Thanks. Your answer makes sense, but conflicts with the official info page and the info that came from the scout store with his uniform. 

The people who work at the Scout store are not uniform experts, nor do their opinions reflect official BSA standards. At my Scout store they are often wrong when people ask them various uniforming questions. The Official Guide to Awards and Insignia makes it clear that the wearing of past Cub Scout rank patches in the traditional diamond pattern is allowed on the blue uniform, but NOT on the khaki. The only rank patches a Webelos Scout can wear on the khaki shirt are the oval Webelos rank patch and the Arrow of Light. This is also confirmed in the Webelos Handbook, which is about as clear and official as you can get.

 

While your unit may have "voted' to continue to wear the earlier rank patches on the khaki uniforms, it is technically incorrect uniforming, and in my mind there is no need to do so anyway - the new uniform is indication enough of their progression through the ranks, and there is no point in wearing the earlier patches. The boys of Webelos Scout age should be looking ahead to their new and upcoming Boy Scout journey, not stuck looking backwards to their younger days. If you choose to wear the past rank patches on the khaki uniform anyway, that is your choice, but know that it is improper uniforming, and technically goes against BSA uniforming policy. And isn't following directions a big part of what Cub Scouts are being taught to do? Better to let the sharp new uniform make its own statement, and wait for the proper oval Webelos rank patch to embellish it correctly. 

[Scoutmaster Teddy]

We voted back in the day on Webelos patches. It's been a while... :-) Is the Cub Scout Insignia guide linked above old? It shows the options on the pocket. Not stirring the pot here, just observing.

Edited July 5, 2017 by deanofmac

[Eagle94-A1]

The people who work at the Scout store are not uniform experts, nor do their opinions reflect official BSA standards. At my Scout store they are often wrong when people ask them various uniforming questions. The Official Guide to Awards and Insignia makes it clear that the wearing of past Cub Scout rank patches in the traditional diamond pattern is allowed on the blue uniform, but NOT on the khaki. The only rank patches a Webelos Scout can wear on the khaki shirt are the oval Webelos rank patch and the Arrow of Light. This is also confirmed in the Webelos Handbook, which is about as clear and official as you can get.

 

With all do respect, if the Scout Shop is owned by National, then they would be the experts as they are required to know the uniforms regs and how to get the answers from the The Official Guide to Awards and Insignia. Trust me, I worked for National Supply once upon a time, and that is something they were adamant about: providinf correct information.

 

Also Page 16 of the The Official Guide to Awards and Insignia state that the traditional  rank diamond: Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, and Webelos is still allowed on both the blue and tan shirts. page 2 of the link above shows that the diamond i sallowed on both blue and tan.  Only the Webelos Oval is not allowed on the blue shirt.

[SouthernTierScouter]

Part of the confusion is I think from The Latin Scot's post is he sort of has it backwards. You can ONLY wear the oval patch on the Tan shirt, but you can wear all the other patches on the Tan Shirt. So you should never see a Webelos still in his blue shirt with the oval patch.

 

Personally I prefer to leave the pocket blank until they earn the Webelos rank, then put that oval patch on.

 

 

2015 Printing, can't find a newer one.: https://www.scoutstuff.org/media/content/docs/pdfs/50015_Webelos_Unif_InspFNL.pdf

 

"Webelos Scouts have the option of wearing the oval-shaped Webelos badge by itself on the tan shirt only; or the diamond-shaped Webelos emblem along with other rank badges on either the tan or navy blue shirt; or if the Tiger Cub emblem was earned, the Webelos diamond-shaped emblem may be worn on either the tan or navy blue shirt by itself and centered on the left pocket."

 

 

[The Latin Scot]

With all do respect, if the Scout Shop is owned by National, then they would be the experts as they are required to know the uniforms regs and how to get the answers from the The Official Guide to Awards and Insignia. Trust me, I worked for National Supply once upon a time, and that is something they were adamant about: providinf correct information.

 

No special respect due; the fact is my friend worked at a Scout Store for years and he was never required to be an expert on uniforming (good thing because he never was, bless his heart). And when the lady who supervises all the stores in my area can't even remember which Scouting roles wear which colored epaulet loops, I'm afraid I can't agree with you. In my Scout Shop they get things wrong all the time, as they do in the Regional Shop as well. A Scout Shop employee is just not going to be a reliable expert on uniforming, nor do their opinions necessarily reflect national policy. The best bet is to look at the official publications or ask somebody whose opinions you can trust.

 

On that note, I do see to my shock that the Official Guide does in fact authorize the diamond rank emblems on the blue shirt. Twist! This is not the same as what is printed in the Webelos Den Leader's Manual, nor in the Webelos Handbook (I just reviewed them this morning to be sure). But as that is the case, I rescind my previous statement and grant that they can opt for the rank diamond option if they please. My apologies for being wrong; still, in my Den we are sticking with blue on blue and tan on tan, and never the twain shall meet! Less sewing for my parents. 

[SouthernTierScouter]

It does appear they simplified it both the Webelos Handbook and the Webelos Leader Handbook. Probably to, well, you know, make it simpler for Scouts, parents and new leaders.