billr Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 I am having trouble with a family that decided they want their 14 yr old kid to get back into the Scouting program and get his Eagle (he is now a 2nd Class) but aren't really interested in participating with the troop. They just want to check off all the requirements in as short a time as possible and move on...They don't seem to want to accept that the first requirement for Star, Life, and Eagle requires active participation...any ideas on what defines "active participation" or how to handle this situation??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 BillR Along with requirement 1 in Star, Life and Eagle are Star and Life requirements #5, and Eagle requirement #4. The Scout Handbook defines active as participation in troop and patrol activities. It is left purposefully vague so that each scouts activity can be based on his individual situation. If you are the Scoutmaster, have you had a conversation with the scout and agreed upon what will be needed to complete requirement 1 of his next rank? The requirement to actively serving a leadership position is again based on the needs of the specific position and the goals set between the scout and the scout leader who presided over his introduction to leadership conference when he was elected or selected to hold office. What position has he been elected or selected to? Who conducted his Introduction to Leadership Conference? What were the goals that were set and agreed to? If the scout fulfills the goals set during these discussions during the allotted time period then he has met the requirement. If he does not work toward or meet those goals then he has not met the requirement. Either way if the program is followed, it is the scout who sets his own goals and has the responsibility to work toward and achieve them.(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dozer Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 You can't hold an office if your not there. You can't let this boy slide by, while every other boy earns his rank correctly. Active participation is taking on a role in leadership and fullfilling the obligations of the job. My 2 cents Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 We have discussed this before! Active is more than being registered. Active means participating in Patrol & Troop activities. An active leader is involved in the day to day operation of his Troop/Patrol (depending on his position). Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 HI and Welcome to the Forum. From what you have posted it seems that the parents are keen and to have this Lad in the troop. There is no mention of what he wants. As he is only Second Class at the present looking forward to the requirements for Life and Eagle seem to be a bit premature. I'm not sure what you mean when you state that they want to check of the requirements. That isn't how the system works. Just because the parents of this Lad are pushing him is no reason for them to push you. I would hope that you would treat this Lad no differently then you do the other Scouts in your troop. You would do well to lay it on the line of how things work and inform the parents that is how it is. It could be that the troop has such an exciting program that the Lad never misses a troop meeting attends all the camp outs is elected as SPL and all these concerns fall by the wayside. Eamonn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 So, if the scout is second class now, and wants to be Eagle, he has to complete the necessary requirements. I dont know where he is at with requirements, so I will project from First Class on. Once he is first class, he has to spend 4 months in a Position of responsibility to qualify for Star, along with earning the required merit badges and the rest. Wait, did I say "spend" I meant successfully complete 4 months. This means the expectations are laid out when the scout gets his "job". He has to meet the job requirments. Then 6 months to Life and then Eagle both with troop jobs. So, whats the "least" amount of participation he can put in to earn Eagle? All he has to do is meet the requirements, no more and no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleInKY Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Billr - Welcome to the forum. Oh, where to start??? First, the kid is only 2nd Class. He's got a long way to go before Eagle. Ask how many "Life for life Scouts" are on this forum, and you'll find a lot. He's got a ton of work before he'll reach Eagle. Many things (cars, girls, sports, etc.) can get in the way before he's achieved it. Second, "they" (his parents) can't "check off" on anything. Advancement is the responsibility of the SM & the Advancement Chair. They have no say in what is required. Third, as has been pointed out, active means "active". You can't be an active scout and hold a position of responsibility while "mailing it in"... He has to be involved. It's your responsibility to help define that for him and agree upon what is reasonable. All of these posters have some good comments. Good luck in handling this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eisely Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 There is little to add to the prior posts. Setting expectations clearly is critical to this boy's success. I suggest a meeting with the boy and the parents together to explain the requirements and provide the necessary definition of "active" and "actively serve". Clearly you have some concerns otherwise you would not have initiated this thread. You do have a lot latitude in setting these expectations, but if you do not do it now, you will have nothing but grief from the parents later on if the boy does not get his rank. I would want a SM conference with just the boy first to find out from him what his motivation really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billr Posted April 14, 2004 Author Share Posted April 14, 2004 thanks for all the input--my opinions are similor to those expressed but I wanted to feel like I wasn't the only one...The main problem is that the kid doens't really want to be around the other boys--he wants his eagle for his college resume (so he says) and I'm very concerned about how to keep him active after he does check off all the of the non-activity based requirements...hopefully he'll have a change of interests... Thanks again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 BillR, Looking at the requirements for 1st Class, how do you see him reaching his next rank and not be active in scouting activities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilLup Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Hello Bill, Welcome You have a tough challenge. That's why a Scoutmaster gets the big bucks Scouting at the 2nd Class and 1st Class level is designed for 11 and 12 year old boys. A 14 year old is a little old for that but it is no big problem. If he wishes, he could be able to speed through. However, there are requirements to be met. If the boy chooses to meet the requirements, he can advance. If he doesn't want to, then he shouldn't advance. It sounds as if the boy and/or parents read a book on college admissions and found the line where it says that being an Eagle Scout will help. So they want the short path to making that happen. YOu get to have a very interesting Scoutmaster's Conference with the boy and likely another one with the parents. You lay out the requirement and you tell them what active means (in your Troop.) They accept it or they don't. You then get four more Scoutmaster's Conferences (1st Class, Star, Life, Eagle.) If he doesn't meet the requirements, he doesn't advance. Lay out the requirements and make sure that they are clearly understood. I might add one additional possibility. I don't think that it would work for this boy but you never know. There is the Venturing program for youth 14 and up. It is, in some ways, more appropriate for older youth. Once the boy earns First Class in a Boy Scout Troop, he can then go into a Venturing Crew and complete the rest of the requirements for Eagle Scout. It is very unusual for a boy to earn the Eagle in a Crew unless he is very close to Eagle when he joins, but it does happen. This might offer the boy an opportunity to be in a group which is more in line with his age and interests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billr Posted April 14, 2004 Author Share Posted April 14, 2004 elaboration---I have no doubt he will participate when it meets his needs--scout camp, over nites for camping merit badge, etc. I also believe he will finish all the required merit badges within the next 6-8 months. He is a very bright kid. However, the activity requirements include at least 4 months for Star, 6 for Life, and 6 more for Eagle. I am concerned that the family (and the boy) are going to scoff at my interpretation of what it means to "actively participate" in the troop after "he has done everything anyway" (except for continue to participate in the troop). I just feel that the purpose of scouting has more to do with character building and fellowship than it does with getting a rank advancement. Hopefully, we'll be able to help him want to be involved rather just check off another accomplishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilLup Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 As I am sure you know, Bill, remember that you can, to some extent, govern his rate of earning of Merit Badges. If you don't approve him for counseling, he can't earn the badge. And while I would not ordinarily suggest a quid pro quo (I will only approve one merit badge application for each month that you are active. And active, in this case, is MY definition of active.) it might be appropriate in this case. Again, you need to make this quite clear in the Scoutmaster's Conference you hold with the boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Again Bill, along with requirement #1 for Star and Life comes requirement #5 where he must actively serve in a leadership position. The Scoutmaster Conference and the the Introduction to Leadership Conference allows you the opportunity to reach an agreement with the scout of just what active for him will mean. Where do you see a problem arising if you and the scout have agreed in advance what he needs to do?(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike F Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Bill R, Parents like this take some of the fun out of the job, no doubt. Good advice above. Give it to them straight and be consistent in how you handle all other scouts in the troop. Another point in getting positions of responsibility - the scout needs to either be elected by the troop to SPL or patrol to PL, or he needs to be assigned to a position by the SPL. Just because he's on a short timeline in effort to get Eagle is no guarantee that he'll be selected. His best way to get a job is to show his interest by taking part in all aspects of the troop program and stepping up to the opportunities (like Asst. PL) that help him grow, but don't count for rank credit. It's not up to the SM to provide these opportunities - it's up to the scout to impress his peers with his abilities so he gets selected. The SM has the option to assign a project for Star and Life credit, but you also have the option to set whatever standards you desire for these. Hang tough and good luck! -mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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