Be careful out there!

[Stosh]

 

This trailer is 6' shorter than the one in the accident.  Depending on the model of Excursion it can haul 7,200# or 11,000#  But then one must take into consideration the weight and cargo in the tow vehicle.

 

Loaded it would be a beast to haul.  Empty on a windy day would be worse.

 

One cannot tell if the tow vehicle was equipped with an load leveler hitch with anti-sway feature, but an occasional tow vehicle would probably not have that as standard equipment.

[Back Pack]

Wasn't it a folding camper? Not an actual storage/haul trailer?

[Stosh]

Yep, I went back to the pictures and the trailer seems to be a camper.  34' camper will not have the weight of a fairly loaded cargo trailer and will work like a sail in a cross-wind. 

 

Why does a scouter need a huge camper on a scout activity?

[Back Pack]

Our unit keeps a record of everyone's towing capacity and the trailer weight. Everyone has a tow package with all the frillls (load leveler, sway bars, etc). We are also lucky enough to have a dad who owns a car repair business and offers free (or heavily discounted) inspections of vehicles in our unit. That way everyone is as safe as can be vehicle-wise. The rest is up to the driver.

[mashmaster]

 

This trailer is 6' shorter than the one in the accident.  Depending on the model of Excursion it can haul 7,200# or 11,000#  But then one must take into consideration the weight and cargo in the tow vehicle.

 

Loaded it would be a beast to haul.  Empty on a windy day would be worse.

 

One cannot tell if the tow vehicle was equipped with an load leveler hitch with anti-sway feature, but an occasional tow vehicle would probably not have that as standard equipment.

WOW! That trailer is huge!  How big is your troop?

[Back Pack]

WOW! That trailer is huge! How big is your troop?

Don't think that's his. Doesn't Stosh have a small troop?

 

We do have a troop where I live that has not one but two such trailers.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Back Pack

[Stosh]

WOW! That trailer is huge!  How big is your troop?

 

  I have 5 boys but they are young and don't know how to pack very well yet.  

 

Seriously, that picture is to show reference to the size of the camper in the accident.  This trailer is 6' shorter than the camper.  Why a Scouter would need that big of a "tent" is beyond me.

 

First of all, if I needed a camper that big at an event, I would take personal responsibility for it's transportation and not have other scouts or scouters in the vehicle with me, especially not buckled in.

 

A trailer that size needs an equalizer hitch.  That usually involves 3 points of contact, the ball-hitch and two torsion bars.  I would also think an anti-sway bar would be necessary.  That would be a fourth point of connection and with 2 safety chains, we are up to 6 connections.  How in the world did the two become separated?

 

Even if the wheels balanced the unit fairly well to minimize tongue weight, how was the trailer loaded?  too much weight to the front? (depresses rear, reduces effective steering on tow vehicle).  Too much in back?  (lifts rear, reduces effective rear wheel traction and stability with road)      

 

Irregardless of the G2SS policies, this whole situation kinda looks like it was an accident looking for a place to happen.

[Col. Flagg]

Not at a Scout camp, but tragic nonetheless.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2017/07/13/11-year-old-dies-at-sleep-away-camp-after-complaining-stomach-issues.html

[krikkitbot]

Maybe and maybe not .  The wind in Texas can be fearsome at times.  

 

Driving near Philmont a couple of weeks ago my SUV (no trailer) was blown into the left lane. I think you can still see my grip marks on the steering wheel. 

[krikkitbot]

Yep, I went back to the pictures and the trailer seems to be a camper.  34' camper will not have the weight of a fairly loaded cargo trailer and will work like a sail in a cross-wind. 

 

Why does a scouter need a huge camper on a scout activity?

 

Well, It does say he was 78. Maybe he should have had a smaller camper or maybe he should have had a bigger pop-up tent. I feel bad questioning him since he was still giving back to scouting but... I'll leave it at that. 

[Col. Flagg]

Well, It does say he was 78. Maybe he should have had a smaller camper or maybe he should have had a bigger pop-up tent. I feel bad questioning him since he was still giving back to scouting but... I'll leave it at that. 

 

Well, we as Scouters should always question things when they involve safety. If someone is afraid to speak up just to avoid hurting someone's feelings, you never know the consequences.

 

I think it is fair game to question the towing capacity of the vehicle, the need for such a long trailer, carrying Scouts with such a burdensome load and anything else that could have reduced the risk here (e.g., ensuring everyone was wearing seat belts).

[krikkitbot]

Well, we as Scouters should always question things when they involve safety. If someone is afraid to speak up just to avoid hurting someone's feelings, you never know the consequences.

 

I think it is fair game to question the towing capacity of the vehicle, the need for such a long trailer, carrying Scouts with such a burdensome load and anything else that could have reduced the risk here (e.g., ensuring everyone was wearing seat belts).

 

Oh, I agree to question before an accident. To question now is to pass judgement without knowing all the details and he can't defend himself.

[Col. Flagg]

Oh, I agree to question before an accident. To question now is to pass judgement without knowing all the details and he can't defend himself.

 

Well....I would argue that questioning the decision now might arm someone reading this with the information that might keep them, or someone they know, from doing the same thing.

 

I can tell you several units in my area immediately started keeping track of trailer weight and the towing capacity of all their trucks.

 

I wouldn't say we are passing judgement or anything. Just asking safety questions where we can learn after the fact. Even the NTSB does that...and it is helpful.

[Stosh]

One can learn best from two different options.  1) The mistakes of others and 2) one's own mistakes.  I always work at option #1.

[Ankylus]

We just returned from Philmont yesterday.

 

One of our crews had a scout who nearly lost an eye to a limb after retrieving a bear bag in the dark. (One observation this time is that Philmont consistently chooses the bears over the scouts. Another is that some of the back country staff are getting arrogant.) We are still waiting to see how badly the eye is damaged. He apparently won't  lose the eye, but will lose the tear duct. He's 14....that's a long time with a dry eye. 

 

Our sister crew climbed the Tooth of Time to spread the ashes of two ASMs who were killed at Northern Tier last year when a tree fell on their tent and crushed them to death. Never heard about that one anywhere.

 

We also were discussing tent placement when someone mentioned the the Philmont incident two years ago where the scout drowned in the flash flood. Our ranger (who I liked a lot) several times said during that discussion, "We don't like to talk about that here."

 

I think a lot of this is actually suppressed.