Service or... Service Project?

[SSScout]

My Scoutmaster Handbook from 1970 sez, under Star Scout requirements: 

"While a First Class Scout, take part in at least one service project helpful to your church or synagogue, school or community".  

 

It goes on to explain: 

  "It is important to distinguish between a Good Turn and a service project as related to this requirement. A GOOD TURN is a simple act undertaken to help someone else. A different Good Turn is expected of a Scout every day. A service project is also a Good Turn, but it is of such a nature that it is beyond the normal daily Good Turn in both scope and in duration.  If, for example, a boy  were to serve as a substitute on the school traffic patrol it would be a Good Turn; but , if he served regularly day in and day out for a period of time, it would be in the nature of a service project."

 

In the present Scout Handbook, the First Class Requirement sez:

""Participate in three hours of service through one or more service projects approved by your Scoutmaster. The project(s)
must not be the same service project(s) used for Tenderfoot  requirement 7b and Second Class requirement 8e. Explain how
your service to others relates to the Scout Law.""

 

If your Scout Troop does a regular duty (mowing the grass,  sweeping the sidewalks, taking out the trash, washing the windows...) for your Charter Org, every month or week say,  is that a "service project"?   Or is it "free labor"?  Do modern Troops do "regular duties" anymore?  Does your Troop SEEK OUT things to do for others? 

 

If your family House of Worship holds a Pancake Supper, can your Scout use busing tables as his S/P ?

Must the Scout HAVE   to plan and pursue the S/P himself?   Can he not just "help" as he is directed? 

 

When does the "Good Turn"  turn into a "Project" that earns "Hours"?  

 

How do your Scouts fulfill these requirements?  How to "keep score" ?  

 

 

[DuctTape]

I think there is a distinction between "a service project" and "an eagle service project". In fact the requirements do spell out the difference.

 

For Eagle:

5. While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to any religious institution, any school, or your community.

 

For Life:

4. While a Star Scout, participate in six hours of service through one or more service projects approved by your Scoutmaster.

 

The distinction is participation vs. plan, develop and lead.

[RememberSchiff]

"Keep score"?

 

Back in the day, we did not.  Oh I helped one little old lady across the street and met my quota for the day. 

 

A service project was outside of our usual recurring chores which were expected of us: snow shoveling of fire hydrants, leaf raking, spring cleaning. I remember my  Star service project. where we installed gutter downspouts and drainage pipes for a community health facility.

 

As for today?

[MattR]

Do modern Troops do "regular duties" anymore?  Does your Troop SEEK OUT things to do for others? 

 

If your family House of Worship holds a Pancake Supper, can your Scout use busing tables as his S/P ?

Must the Scout HAVE   to plan and pursue the S/P himself?   Can he not just "help" as he is directed? 

 

When does the "Good Turn"  turn into a "Project" that earns "Hours"?  

 

How do your Scouts fulfill these requirements?  How to "keep score" ?  

 

We wouldn't be allowed to do regular duties. We do seek out projects. We do a bunch of annual projects. We give hours for all of these and that's the score.

 

Assuming the pancake supper (shouldn't that be a breakfast?) is a fundraiser, we never give service hours for fundraisers, mainly because the scouts profit from it.

 

We once had a really nice HOA convince someone in our troop to organize cleaning up garbage around their ponds. It started off that they were going to make a donation to our troop and then they said it was a really nice service project. We kept our word and did the job but that was the end of that. The next year they asked and we told them $10/hr/scout. They didn't call back.

[Col. Flagg]

We once had a really nice HOA convince someone in our troop to organize cleaning up garbage around their ponds. It started off that they were going to make a donation to our troop and then they said it was a really nice service project. We kept our word and did the job but that was the end of that. The next year they asked and we told them $10/hr/scout. They didn't call back.

 

Curious, but why not just do it again and call it a conservation project?

[fred johnson]

"Keep score"?

 

Back in the day, we did not.  Oh I helped one little old lady across the street and met my quota for the day. 

 

A service project was outside of our usual recurring chores which were expected of us: snow shoveling of fire hydrants, leaf raking, spring cleaning. I remember my  Star service project. where we installed gutter downspouts and drainage pipes for a community health facility.

 

As for today?

 

I'm with you.  That's how our troop deals with this.  I've seen troops that have the scout's keep a service log.  In our troop, the scoutmaster talks to the scout at the scoutmaster conference about how the scout has helped others and provided service to others.  It's up to the scoutmaster to agree the requirement has been met.  But generally, it's done with a smile and "wow, that's great" statement.

[MattR]

Curious, but why not just do it again and call it a conservation project?

Maybe you're misreading what I meant to say. We were free labor for a HOA with million dollar homes. They could afford to pay someone to pick up their garbage.

[qwazse]

I make it clear that first class scouts do routine good turns and initiate service projects so often, that it would be an embarrassment if they could recall only six hours of service or only one initial project at their next conference.

 

I am really trying to get my venturers to think in terms of five major projects (along the lines of Hornaday requirements), of which Eagle would merely be the first.

[Col. Flagg]

Maybe you're misreading what I meant to say. We were free labor for a HOA with million dollar homes. They could afford to pay someone to pick up their garbage.

 

LOL, can someone misread what was not written? 

 

Okay, so they are million dollar homes. Should someone's ability to pay dictate whether a Scout does a service project for someone who is poor or someone who is rich? I thought the idea was to provide a service, no?

 

There's an old lady down the street from us. She can afford a great deal, yet my son still helps her with her groceries and brings her the paper when they throw it in the bushes. Why? Because he's a Scout. Same with the local church. They have millions in their operations fund. Could they hire someone to fix their volleyball court? Sure, but that would be a few thousand that would not go in to their food bank.

 

Our unit does not put an ability to pay litmus test on providing service to others.

[MattR]

Charity goes to the poor, whether that be money or ability or some other hardship. Giving charity to those that aren't poor, in whatever definition of poor being used, is just being foolish. There are plenty of other people that do need that help. In your example the old lady presumably is not very mobile and helping her with the newspaper or her groceries is a good deed. You say it's not about money for this lady, which means it's probably more about community and interacting with someone that doesn't get out very often. That's the poverty in this case, a poor social network. So the kid that helps out is doing a good deed. The homeowners, however, are young and able, as a neighborhood, to pick up their own garbage, and just as importantly, they have a strong social network. They are not poor in any way. They don't need our charity.

[CalicoPenn]

My thoughts:

 

A Good Turn is something that isn't usually a long project, and is often spontaneous. While most Boy Scouts usually aren't in a position to help a little old lady across the street anymore, the important take-away from that image is that a good turn often helps just one person, doesn't take alot of time, and isn't something that is usually planned. A Scout sees someone in the park chasing after their dog and is able to catch the dog has done their good turn. A Scout holds a door open for someone with their arms full - thats a good turn (who said the good turn has to be something big?). A couple of Scouts finish shoveling their driveway and decide to clear "Old Man Jone's" driveway - that's a good turn. A Scout finds a wallet and tracks down the owner - a good turn....................................................................................................... A service project, in my opinion, benefits more than just one person - it benefits a group, other than their own unit. The projects are typically planned - not spontaneous. Serve as waiters at your chartered organization's pancake supper (yes, supper - I like pancakes for supper) and I'd count the hours - as long as its not a fundraiser for my own unit. Paint the fire hydrants downtown for the city? Service project. Clear the trails at a local nature center after a big storm or after winter? Service project. Help an Eagle Scout candidate at their leadership project? I'll give them Service project hours. Paint the shelter at Scout Camp? Service Project. For me, the biggest key is that the project be done for a government or for a non-profit (including churches, synagogues and mosques). If its a business or if someone is getting paid for it, then it's free labor - not a service project. Would I count the pond clean-up at an HOA as a service project? No - an HOA is a business - they collect and spend fees from the homeowners to maintain the common areas - they may not make a profit, but if they were to hold a reserve, they would have to pay taxes on the amount that they retained each year (so that folks are clear - if they decided to build up a reserve of $25,000 and held back $5,000 a year to do so, they would have to pay taxes on $5K the first year, $5K the second year, etc.).

[qwazse]

I try not to split hairs over this stuff. But, my scouts who found employment at HOA never counted that time as service hours.

But, maybe one could pitch to the HOA the possibility of chartering a troop.

 

My in-laws' land trust would gladly let my crew camp on the property, especially when there is a glut of timber to clear and burn. I would consider the time put in clearing deadfall as service hours if a scout needed it. But my youth have never made the trip. So the topic was never broached.

 

At the end of the day, for me, it's what the boys think. If one thinks that his efforts were a payment in kind and doesn't want to count it, I wouldn't try to change his mind. If another youth was quite proud that he was able to serve his hosts, I'd support him. Maybe this reflects my disdain of tracking service hours at all.

 

Different example, my favorite church activity was counseling at day camp. Lots of planning, preparation, and implementation involved for the week or two. Some guided by he youth pastor, some of my own initiative (more scripted in Jr. High, less in high school). Was that a service project, a good turn, duty to God?

 

IMHO, a good turn writ large is a service project. And a service project of any worth is a form of duty to God and my country. So, attempts to deli oat them comes off as a little silly.

[Col. Flagg]

Sorry, @@MattR, but since when is a good deed, service project or anything else we do as Scouts based on ability to pay? We don't discriminate when we perform a service.

 

You think these schools, churches and other organizations for which our Scouts do Eagle projects can't afford to pay someone to do the same work? And yet we sign off on these projects -- many times with the funded entirely by the Scout -- nearly every day.

 

I certainly hope your troop is getting those organizations to pay your Eagle candidates for their time, materials, supplies and such. Otherwise, its a but hypocritical, don't ya think?

[qwazse]

.. And a service project of any worth is a form of duty to God and my country. So, attempts to deli oat them comes off as a little silly.

Really autocorrect? In what spelling-verse is "delineate" replaced with "deli oat"?

[RememberSchiff]

Really autocorrect? In what spelling-verse is "delineate" replaced with "deli oat"?

 

The high-in-dietary-fiber-verse?